The Great Dane

Coach
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  1. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    I'm not really interested in continuing cause you aren't really addressing what's being said, just going off on tangents and asserting things that you wouldn't have a clue about, and ironically making my point for me by pointing out that Toronto has only looked into and signed player from Australia with NRL experience or that have been on NRL contracts, however I will address a few things. Firstly I don't think that David Argyle has played RL, well he might have as a kid or whatever, but not at any reasonable level that I've heard of, and he's a well known private school boy and RU lover, in fact until the Wolfpack I think he's had basically nothing to do with the sport and him bankrolling a club came pretty much out of nowhere. Secondly when was Brian Noble down here searching the NSW cup and/or Q cup? Not saying it didn't happen, it may have, but I almost certainly would have heard it through the grapevine if it did happen. Even assuming that he was down here it can't have been for very long and he can't have been very thorough, he must have only caught a handful of games (if that), and he definitely didn't attend any outside of Brisbane and/or Sydney if he was down here, let alone any outside of Australia in NZ or the PIs. And couple of weeks long trip where you attend only a couple of games is a terrible way to scout, good scouts are attending matches and following players all over the place, watching and re-watching performances, Brian Noble couldn't have done that over a short trip, and again I don't know of any independent SL scouts down here, that includes one working for Toronto, and you haven't shown any evidence that there are any down here, let alone one working for Toronto. Finally, I never called you nuts or said that you were ludicrous, I only said that some of your ideas are either nuts or ludicrous, those are two very different things. I'm sure that I hold some crazy ideas and assumptions about things that I know nothing about as well.
  2. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    Rude, lol, if you think I've been rude then you are either reading it into my posts yourself or you don't really know what rude is. I think you need to claim down mate, relax. Firstly I never said that every player that goes over would be a success, that'd be a ludicrous statement and an even more ludicrous expectation. Secondly I don't know of a single independent SL scout scouring the Australian RL scene (not saying that they don't exist, only that I've never heard of or seen one, and if I haven't heard of or seen one then there isn't enough to actually get any results), all of the the SLs scouting down here seems to be done through contacts with NRL scouts and seems to focus almost exclusively on blokes either with NRL experience or that have been contracted to NRL clubs at some point, and firstly the NRL scouts are going to give their best prospects to the NRL clubs first then offer the left overs to the SL, and policies like focusing only on players with NRL experience/contracts means that you lot miss more then 99.9% of the playing pool down here. Thirdly which SL chairmen, coaches, scouts, or undefined "high level professional contacts in Australia" have said that the "Australian player pool has little more to offer"? I haven't heard anybody say that, I've heard people say that their isn't enough players of a high enough standard to support two more NRL teams without a drop in the standard of play in the NRL (normally very biased people with something to lose if the NRL expands I might add), which is arguable, but you lot aren't looking to build two more NRL teams so it's a redundant point anyway. Finally, no I wouldn't make a very good players agent, I'm neither ruthless enough or good enough at negotiating for that sort of job, but as a talent scout for either a club, players agent, or "talent management firm" (or whatever they call themselves these day), then who knows maybe, I made some good picks when I was helping out at local juniors clubs years ago, I also made some bad ones though, but I guess that would come with the territory of being a talent scout.
  3. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    Lol, you may be surprised. I couldn't promise anything like Smith, Slater, Cronk, or even Rapana, but there are literally hundreds of players just in the Canberra/Southern Highlands scene that I can think of from over the years that either fell through the cracks or where never given the chance to live up to their potential, that could have turned into some amazing players with the right mentors, determination, and a bit of luck. For example more famous blokes like Mitch Cornish, Michael Chee Kam, Wally Lewis's nephew Lachlan Lewis, I could go on forever and god knows I'm gonna kick myself in a couple of minutes for forgetting to add someone in this post.
  4. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    Nah that's not fair, they're not being lazy. There're only so many places to be filled, so even if a kid or a bloke looks like a good prospect the scouts, recruitment officers, etc, have to make decisions on which are the better prospects often long before there's any real hope of being able to tell which are the best prospects. So yeah basically when you consider that there're roughly a million kids and blokes all fighting for give or take ten thousand spots which becomes less and less spots the higher you go up the pyramid until you get to a few hundred spots in the NRL and then 20 or so spots in the SOO squads and the Kangaroos, it's totally natural that a lot are going to fall through the cracks at every level. Nothing you can do about it there simply isn't enough room for all of the players with potential within the system and there isn't really any reasonable way to make the system any better except to expand the number of positions available to be filled.
  5. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    Wanna know the real kicker, apart from Slater (who grew up in Innisfail I believe) they all grew up playing against JT in the same juniors competitions in Brisbane and all knew or knew of each other. Their are two books on Billy Slater, I've never read them so I don't know how much detail they go into his youth or his playing days pre-NRL though, I don't think that their are any on Cronk or Smith though, but I know for a fact that some of the book on the Maroons winning streak and the like do talk about how they and Thurston all grew up playing with and/or against each other at different stages in their youth, couldn't tell you exactly which ones go into it though I just remember reading promotional articles and watching promotional material about some of those books that go into it in at least some detail. Their are plenty of articles floating around about their intertwined RL playing careers and juniors days, again I can't remember exact articles but I'm sure you can find them with a little bit of a search.
  6. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    So you're saying I'm wrong then, and are denying that there's a huge pool of really good quality players down here that aren't being utilised? Cause you'd be either extremely ill-informed or nuts if you were saying that. Lets put things in perspective for a second- half of the teams in the QLD cup and NSW cup alone would easily be lower middle - middle of the table SL teams, I know that some of the people on here wont want to accept that but broadly speaking it's true and just humor me for a minute, that's roughly 13 teams worth of players just from the NSW cup and QLD cup alone, and without even taking into account players from the rest of the PIs and NZ or the rest of the Australian system, and sure those teams probably won't be winning the SL anytime soon, but Championship and League 1 on the other hand... Or using them as the bones of a team that could go on to do really well in the SL... And you lot don't even need 13 teams worth, realistically in the next few years you need 3-5 teams max, if you were sourcing players only from the NSW cup and QLD cup you could easily make 3-5 very solid teams out of that player pool alone, but you don't only have to source players from the NSW and Q cups, there're the players on the outer at NRL and SL clubs, their are the athletes in the PIs desperate for anybody to take a look at them, there are the blokes in NZ that missed out on a contract with the Warriors, their are the blokes that for whatever reason fell through the cracks and ended in lower up level League or in club rugby union, the blokes in the rest of the English system, etc, etc. And maybe you think that if their were any players worth having in the lower tiers in Australia then they would have already been picked up by an NRL club, again you'd either be extremely ill-informed or nuts to think that, but you might think that. If you do in fact think that then I'd just show you this picture- Left to right that's Cooper Cronk, Billy Slater, and Cam Smith posing for their under 19s Norths Devils team photo after being passed up by all the NRL teams development programs (including the Storm), until over the next year or so they were all signed by the Storm, First Cam Smith was scouted as a cheap back to the back ups back up hooker for the reserves grade, then Cronk was pick up dirt cheap to trail with the reserves after being spotted playing club RU in Brisbane, then finally Slater signed when he trailed at public open trials for the Storm in Brisbane... Each of them signed on $5k contracts with no promises and weren't expected to do much, maybe hold spots in the reserve grade or third tier... That's right three of the best players not just of their generation but ever were all missed by the tradiotional NRL juniors system, and by blind luck where picked up by the storm, and they aren't the only stories of great players falling through the cracks only to be discovered by chance latter on from through out the years, Jordan Rapana comes to mind as another more recent example, he went through the Titans system and played a few games for them way back when before going on a mission for a few years, after coming back from his Mormon mission all of the NRL clubs passed on signing him, somehow he ended up playing club RU for the Royals in the local Canberra RU competition, before being spotted by both the Brumbies and the Raiders after about a year at which point both chased him for a train and trial and eventually for a signature, and there're almost certainly plenty more players who have fallen through the cracks that could have been or could still become some of the GOAT. So yeah, long story short you haven't got a clue what you are talking about...
  7. Toronto

    Oh Coal Train... It's really sad to hear he's hit the skids again, the club (the Raiders) did so much to get him back on track and he was going so well, and he's already ballsed it up... Though I'm sure that the club will take him back if it's only a drugs problem again and he is willing to undergo the same sort of supervision and training plan as last time, we got him off the gear once no reason we can't do it again...
  8. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    There's a whole army of blokes playing NSW and QLD cup that'd make solid NRL or SL players that just haven't been given the chance, it's unlikely that any will be immortals or anything like that, but they'll fill a squad out and get the job done (particularly in League 1 and Championship). And if that isn't enough players for you there then there's another army in the PIs waiting to be discovered, there's more potential of uncovering a diamond in the rough in the PI's as well (most is just average players though). And if that still isn't enough players for you, there's another army of players plying their trade in club RU down here just waiting for an opportunity (or another opportunity) at the big time, most of whom have play RL before, and many of whom have at least trialled with an NRL club, all of which would make perfectly fine players, particularly for League 1 and Championship. There're thousands of players down here waiting for an opportunity to crack into professional Rugby of either variety, but there're only 15 NRL clubs and 4 Super Rugby clubs in Australia, so supply and demand and all that, so it'd be a great source of players for North American clubs while they develop their own juniors.
  9. Challenge Cup Invitation to NRL Clubs

    Firstly it's Hull and Wigans prerogative where they play the game (with the RFL approval I imagine), if it was part of the WCC they wouldn't have had a choice where it was played, secondly they still own that game, they won't be sharing the revenue from it with the NRL, that wouldn't be the case either if they were playing it in an expanded WCC. It's not a comparable situation at all, namely Wigan and Hull had a say in where and how the game will be played, and they aren't being forced to split the revenue for the game with completely unconnected entities. I don't know why we're even arguing about it anyway as it'll never happen, and it's not necessary for it to happen to grow the stature of the WCC anyway.
  10. WCC Scheduling

    What contradictions?
  11. New York, Boston and Hamilton in 2019

    You do run the risk of becoming the after thought team though, and that's not good cause as soon as the going gets tough the team to get their funding cut is the after thought teams...
  12. Challenge Cup Invitation to NRL Clubs

    What's ridiculous about it? You do realise that what you are suggesting could completely undermine the whole NRL and SL, it'd basically create the possibility that the grand final is only a qualifier for the real grand final at the WCC for a different trophy, and the NRL and RFL wouldn't have complete ownership of it which means that one another would be making money (or leaching) off each others GF rematches unnecessarily and without any right to do so, which means that they and their constituencies would lose part of the profit to the other organisation, it'd also potentially screw the clubs involved out of a large chunk of the pay day for their biggest matches of the next season (I can't speak for the pommy clubs but the NRL clubs would not like that at all), it'd also potentially mean that the GF rematch is played not only outside of the clubs involved home grounds but on the other side of the planet which would screw most of the fans of the clubs involved out of the privilege that their club has earned, etc, etc. It'd be a huge can of worms, and know for a fact that the NRL and NRL clubs wouldn't go for it and I highly doubt that the RFL and SL clubs would go for it either. Also you don't need to completely undermine the NRL and SL competitions to use the WCC as a showcase for the sport to the rest of the world.
  13. WCC Scheduling

    It's not that they've persisted with it that is a bad thing, it's the way that they have persisted with it that has been bad, namely outright refusing to host games in Australia or even attempt to grow the WCC in Australia. And I simply don't understand your anger at the "Aussie admin" for not being interested in the WCC, they don't think it's a viable product so they don't want anything to do with it, so what, you expect them to host it and throw resources at it anyway even though they don't want anything to do with it and think that it's a waste of time and money?! It's the RFL's product, not theirs, it's your job to sell it to them, not their job to just accept it despite thinking that it's a black hole, the RFL hasn't even tried to prove to them that it's a viable product in Australia as well as England but some how that's the NRL's fault in your mind. I simply don't get your line of thinking... I also don't get your line about the Nines, All Stars, etc. If the "Aussie admin" had little desire for anything outside of NRL then the Nines, All Stars, etc wouldn't exist at all. If you are complaining about what you see as these events seemingly not being supported this year or supported the way that they used to be, well then the Nines and All Stars are taking a year off because of the cluttered scheduled (it's an RLPA rules and regulations thing), they'll be back next year (besides the All Stars is a deeply flawed product, that is arguably deeply racist and sets a dangerous precedent, that needs to be completely restructured or killed off anyway, but isn't being restructured or killed off because of wider politics in this country, and why you, as a person from outside of Australia, are worried about it all I don't know, but this is a conversation for another time), the sport and Australia as whole outgrew CVC just as it outgrew other events in the past (Amco cup (Australias' Challange cup), Roos v rest of the world, etc, etc) and it'll outgrow other events in the future, it's sad, but it is what it is, the ANZAC test is basically still a thing it's just been moved to the end of the season, and the Roos participate in internationals regularly. So yeah I don't get your point on that one either, it seems ill informed if anything, I also note that you didn't mention SOO...
  14. WCC Scheduling

    And of the two games that have been played in Australia one was played at a decent time for the UK market, so what! The fact that it has been played at decent times in the past is no excuse for the other times when it hasn't been at a good times. That's all true, and I agree that the RFL has completely failed to prove to the NRL clubs that their baby, their product, the WCC is a viable and profitable product for the NRL clubs as well as the SL clubs. Firstly I'm not most Australians, secondly I haven't been on here long enough for my complaints to be heard on this forum before now, thirdly if you want to hear Australian critisims of the WCC looking on an Australian website instead of an English one might be a good starting point... You care so much about the wider game, the event, etc, etc, that you've spent the last 20 years running the WCC into the ground by failing to support it on both sides of the globe... And don't get me started on the strange entitlement that the RFL and English RL fans seem to have towards the NRL and Australian RL, and this weird idea that any crack pot idea that you lot come up with should be financially supported by the NRL and NRL clubs even if there's nothing in the event for the NRL and NRL clubs (Denver for example). We're not talking about the 4N or RLWC they're both redundant, and besides I don't really have a problem with most of the scheduling of those events, trying to fit so many games all catering to different regions into a handful of time slots over a weekend and still making the tournament attractive to the majority of local populous, local broadcaster, and local sponsors would be a borderline impossible task, especially over an extended period like during a WC. Remember when i was talking about give and take and how it's necessary to make events like this successful... By the way, any talk of a travel schedule and travel time that sees a team and it's fans traveling all over England as either arduous or unreasonable is simply ridiculous to me, you guys really don't seem to realise just how small England is. You are saying that now that it's effecting you, you weren't saying that for the last 20 years... No we're not, we're saying that the RFL has so bungled the WCC that if you want it to be a viable product again you need to resurrect it in Aus, and the only way you are going to do that with any efficacy is if you present it as a major event in Australia for at least a little while, and the best way to present it as a major event is to play it in one of the premier time slots in Aus for a little while, and it doesn't get more premier than Wednesday or Friday night. If you want the WCC to continue you're going to have to accept things like this for a little while, remember that give and take I was talking about earlier, otherwise it's destine for the trash heap cause it's literally a dead brand in Australia, even most RL fans down here don't watch it and probably couldn't tell you when its on or who the English team in it is. You really don't seem to understand the just how bad things have got for the WCC down here. And again you didn't seem to have a problem when it was the RFL and SL clubs saying 'this is ours, we'll organise it for us and stuff you', hence the poem, cause from where I'm standing you're literally in the position of- First they came for the Aussies, and I did not speak out because I was not an Australian. Then they came for me and there was nobody left to speak for me. Firstly I'm yet to see any outrage for you lot, let alone the pommy media, about the treatment of the WCC as it pertains to it's impact in Australia (apart from whinging about the NRL clubs refusal to support a product that they don't see any value in), there's plenty of Aussie media about Australians misgivings about how the WCC is run. Secondly where did I say that I found it perfectly acceptable to stage games during working hours? I've only said that in this situation it's currently a necessary evil. Besides every game that's played ever is played during working hours, I know people that are hardcore RL fans living here in Australia that basically haven't watched any game live in the last ten years cause of their work, there's nothing you can do about it really, were a 24 hour economy and all that. That's something that those people have to deal with.
  15. Challenge Cup Invitation to NRL Clubs

    I doubt that the NRL would be ok with the potential that the GF rematch could be played outside of the NRL season and for another trophy... From an Australian perspective what the WCC really needs is a constant presence in Australia, having years when it's not on down here is the biggest thing that's killing it, and it seems to me that the best way to change that without just moving the WCC down here every year (which would be just as stupid as the current reverse that we have) would be to either play a three game series with hosting rights alternating or play two games WCC and runner up v runner up with one game in each hemisphere and hosting rights alternating. Logistically the later seems more realistic to me. But whatever happens for the love of god take the responsibility of organising it away from the clubs, and organise and start promoting it months in advance, before we even know who the premiers are, even if that means that it's played at neutral venues most years.