Dave T

So you reckon the RFL used to be the lead in the IRL. And that was when Greece played in the World Cup. And now you say the NRL lead it. And Greece won't be in the qualifiers. Because of the RFL?

I think we've had some cracking kits in recent years. I suppose we have gone with more retro kits that appeal to the likes of me in recent years, whereas this current one is maybe more modern, aimed at the younger crowd.

I'm just not sure it's realistic to expect the RFL to grow the game in Greece.

I mean the evidence just doesn't back that up.

I know you aren't saying Scotland were our Tonga/Samoa Tommy....

Sounds like a plan

But that is a slightly different point. I agree that everything we do should be better, I think there is very little that we can call high quality. But if we look at France, since that 2000 World Cup they have had a half-decent run at things. They have played 91 matches, a third of them against the big three, they have played England, Oz and the Kiwis at home with decent crowds, they have staged Four Nations and World Cup games and then they have played semi-regular Euro Cup games, as well as a smattering of lower ranked nations. They have had a strong team in Super League. They have also come from a place where they have had an RL presence in their country for almost 100 years. They come from a place that Ireland and Scotland (and pretty much every other Euro nation) can only dream of, but they haven't really improved internationally. Similarly, Wales are probably next in line. They have played far fewer games - 54 matches, but again, they have played some high profile games, hosting World Cup and Four Nations matches. They had an SL club for a period, as well as an NL 1 team. They also have a decent RL heritage. Again, they have a starting point that most nations can only dream of. Both of the above examples really show the size of the challenge that we face, and both Ireland and Scotland are coming from way behind both of them. On the other side of the world, we have teams like Tonga and Samoa who are doing great just now. And people are suggesting we should replicate what the Aussies have done there. Tonga have played 51 matches since 2001, pretty much none at home. The Aussies have played them twice, the Kiwis 5 times. Samoa have played 51, maybe 1 at home. The Aussies and Kiwis have played them 4 times each in 23 years.

I agree. I think it is far more complicated than just playing games. But France have played games and struggled, I don't see how England playing the Home Nations annually helps them. I do agree they should play them, but I do think that's where the tournaments needed to come in.

It's regular games against the top teams, which is something people keep saying France need. They have it. They are no better than 23 years ago. On top of these 30 games they have played another 61. In RL terms, the France national team have been pretty lively!

In the last 23 years, England and GB have played against France 20 times. France have played the Aussies 3 times in that period and the Kiwis 7 times. So in the last 23 years (including a couple of with Covid), the French have played the top nations 30 times. That probably indicates that it isn't just about playing tests.

I think early bird offers are pretty common and perfectly valid. My personal view is that 50% feels excessive, but then I suppose we pretty much always have empty seats, so to an extent we can afford to give a fair few away!

That design would be nicer. The club email today confirms the Wire away colours as mint green and navy blue

I get what you are saying, but I will point out that there had been many years during this period that the tournament wasn't staged (as these teams played other games as you point out), so why is this one year being deemed so important as to kill off this comp, particularly as Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France all played that winter? These teams were just playing other games, it was quite normal during the period. Why wasn't this played in 2014-16? Like I say, it was sporadic. WC Qualifiers should have been based on games like this tbh. Edit: to add, I had a brilliant day out at the Scotland v Ireland match in Edinburgh in 2012. It was a long day that was very messy and ended up with us watching the spaceman jumping to earth live on tv in a pub with a band playing. We still refer to that day quite often with friends.

Aye, my post wasn't a criticism of the early years, quite the opposite, the level of activity was really positive. But in 2010 many of those teams had fallen by the wayside, there was no tournament in 2011, and this was in advance of that 2012 Tri Nations you refer to. The 2009 tournament ran without France, and let's not make out Wales are a big gun. England Knights was a return to the approach of a few years back when the RFL sent a 2nd team to the Euro Cup. I understand why people don't like that, but had Italy not pulled out it would have been a 4 team tournament like some others. And had Russia, Georgia, Lebanon etc not gone by the wayside it would have been a 6 team tournament. Id like to see the RFL support this comp more, but I don't agree with your narrative of its demise. Surely IRL funding should be covering costs to run this for a minimum of 4 teams?

I agree. We handed Wales back to RU by not having a pro team option for players at the start of SL.

Aye, and I agree with the principle, I think like @Damien, there has to be an increase at top level opportunities, and that will cost millions without private investment.

I'm going off only memory and Wiki, but the 2012 version was announced as Knights, Ireland, Scotland and Italy, before Italy pulled out. Lets look at the history though of that tournament: 2003 - 6 teams (Sco, Ire, Fra, Wal, Russia and England who despite not being called it were effectively the B team as GB played at that time). 2004 - same as above 2005 - as above, Georgia replaced England. 2006-2008 - no tournaments 2009 - 6 teams (Wal, Ire, Serbia, Ita, Sco, Leb) 2010 - 4 teams (Wales, Sco, Ire, Fra) - you'll notice this is 2 years before the event you refer to and it has changed drastically. 2011 - No tournament. 2012 - 3 teams, Eng K, Ire, Sco - Italy were scheduled but withdrew. So whilst there was far more activity than there is now, it's wrong to make out it was a consistent, established tournament that was undermined. The use of the word sporadic was absolutely accurate. Where the RFL can be criticised (and this is from memory) is that we pulled funding during this period, IIRC we pushed the RLEF route of self-governance, but I do think it harmed development in places like Scotland that were benefiting from funding, internationals and even events like the Cup final, on the road games and Magic Weekend. I'll absolutely be critical around that.

In that period we were luck at Warrington to see the likes of Davies, Bateman, Ellis, Phillips - all fan favourites. I remember the links were so strong that as part of the Wolfpack junior supporters club we even went down on a coach to watch them play the Aussies in 1994 (IIRC) in Cardiff.

Who knows. I wonder whether South Wales could ever sustain a 10k+ SL club (which should always be the aspiration when we talk about new clubs). They don't do brilliant even at Union at club level. The reduction in Welsh Union in players in RL is one of the saddest changes in my time time watching RL. Some of my favourite ever players came from that route.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic at the moment, but I just don't see the potential here. We've had presence in Wales for years, but not much happens, and I'm not sure the new plan will address this I. E. Investing more time and money. France (and London) has more, and are no brainers, but I'm not sure where the serious investment is coming. The Future for these nations under an NRL run IRL looks bleak.

The Euro Cup has been interesting, I've watched a few Scotland games live and always enjoyed them. For me, this is why the IRL needed funding via World Cups and a Federation tournament. It then allows for tier 2 development and tournaments, and leave the Tier 1 nations free to stage their own self-funding tournaments/tours in other years. The plan was pretty much exactly what was needed.

Yeah, I was impressed with the video, and I thought basketball and skateboarding being prominent makes it clear who this is targeting. The videos of the launch event and this promo was pretty nice tbh.

The 2012 tri nations is the one that SP claims killed the Euro Cup, in reality it ended the year before. The 2012 version was bigger than the 2011 one.

I like the Catalans home, away less so tbh. Love the Hull FC shirt. Dislike the Saints ones a lot.

Yeah, I always prefer simple/classic, or properly bold. I think this is neither.