Dave T

Always enjoy the spin on stuff like this. Mick Gledhill stating that 'only' eight of the 13 Champ clubs voted in favour. That's a pretty strong endorsement tbh, and twice as many Champ clubs voted in favour as voted against.

Yup. A majority across all three divisions is pretty conclusive aint it?

What's absention? Is it just a typo (over and over)?

I do tend to agree. It's the part of this whole setup that doesn't really work for me. And for all people will talk about the aim being 12+ A clubs, in reality we won't be there for a long while, so designing a system that has some real challenges in it around P&R seems a bit odd. Some of the examples being raised may be to make a point, but it shouldn't be so easy to put examples of poor outcomes together in a newly designed system. You have a blank canvas, you can fix those quirks. Of course maybe the challenge is that P&R just doesn't have a place. But like 15 years ago, we are going with a middle ground to try and please everyone.

I'm not sure how this relates to the posts quoted. The clubs are voting on the principle in reality tweaks have already been made, and will always continue I expect. But the point of my post was that nobody has a moral high ground either way, which is what was claimed.

And thats fine. But I don't think either opinion comes with any moral high ground.

on the flipside, surely anyone who doesn't vote for a system that demands standards from all clubs to allow the sport to put its best foot forwards isn't voting for the good of the game? These strong A clubs are all pretty much safe and can crack on with life anyway, many of the biggest improvements need to come lower down the table.

Wilderspool hasn't held that many for decades. We're probably talking biggest crowd in Wire for 40 to 50 years or so.

I'm sure there was a press release at the start of the year saying it had increased slightly due to the latest safety certificate or something. Maybe 15.4k?

On that Wire v Wigan crowd. If Rugbyleagueproject is accurate, the previous highest crowd in recent history for this game at Wire is 14028. So hopefully that will be beaten, and it would mean the highest crowd for Warrington v Wigan for many decades.

The constant claims of focusing on what we have, or the heartlands is tiring. The vast, vast majority of games, activity, development, money etc is spent on the heartland areas. The heartlands have never been neglected for a second. The top division of our sport is full of heartland clubs. We can do a hell of a lot more on expansion before there is any talk of doing enough, never mind too much.

But that backdrop has been around for decades. Wire used the same arguments when campaigning for theirs. I expect every other development has had this basis as part of the discussions for the last 30 years.

I agree. There has been investment under every structure we've had. If all it needed was focused minds, theyd have done it during Licensing.

What is the amount?

The lower division clubs getting even a single penny of SLE's TV deal is done to help the lower teams.

It's a terrible idea. But I'm sure you'd just complain that it is still unfair because clubs get bigger crowds because they play the bigger teams, and Sky show these games, so they get more sponsors. There will always be excuses.

You think all 36 clubs should get an equal split?

Fair enough. You're right. P&R can't work. Scrap it.

You'll always just put it down to being one of the chosen 12. Yet a while ago, Bradford were at the top of that table - but now they see themselves as one of the hard done to 2nd tier. And Widnes, and London. There is no chosen few. Clubs are broadly where you would expect them to be. There are no sleeping giants being suppressed.

That's one read. New clubs were admitted, clubs have moved out since. Again, if we look back at that period, the likes of London, Bradford, Crusaders, Widnes have moved out of SL despite all these benefits they apparently were given.

This is exactly the griping I refer to. Halifax, Oldham, London, and Workington were in SL1, Hull and Hull KR weren't. Salford and Cas have been relegated, amongst others. The likes of Halifax and Fev haven't taken over these weaker clubs. Why not? Hull KR are in SL and Fev are not for a reason

We do like to protray SL as a bit of a closed shop and existing clubs having a huge advantage etc. I would absolutely challenge this. The ones there and doing well are there because they are the strongest clubs. Broadly speaking we have had relatively open P&R. Out of the current 12 clubs, 7 of them have spent time outside of Super League I believe. Neither Hull club was included at the start. Of course there are some cases where clubs may feel hard done to, with Keighley being a clear case of that 28 years ago, but broadly speaking, clubs have had plenty of opportunity to get into SL and establish themselves.

Obviously this is for adults only, but from eyeballing it, I don't see anything that suggests we over-index in older populations. For years we have had dirt cheap tickets for kids too, and those 18-35 year old are coming through the pipeline from somewhere. I do see a problem with strategy around kids tho - cheap tickets, family game, yet heavy alcohol use and Thursday/Friday night games. We need to be careful.

Thanks, my phone suggests I've already downloaded this once so will have a scan again