Dave T

I do agree with this, whilst it is fun to discuss theories, you can't dictate what the show and the writers are going to do, you have to accept that what happens is what the show actually is. My issue is that I am not finding this series that enjoyable. For the first time last night, I found large parts of it boring, and ended up chatting during it. Poor writing and corny plots that are not in keeping with the rest of the quality of the show are fair game for criticism. I'm currently listening to the Entertainment Weekly GoT podcast, and so far they share many of my concerns/annoyances.

I can't disagree on the first three. The developments make sense, and I said to my wife earlier that on paper there is clear rationale for their arc and they have been coming, I think it was some of the execution. Dani hadn't had enough time for the anger to really grow - sure there were signs she was going mad, and it is in her genes clearly, but I think because it was rushed, it came across like it was because her bestie had been murdered and her crush wouldn't get it on with her because he wasn't a fan of incest. The theme of love vs fear was clumsily done, as had the liberated Kings Landing like she had other cities the people would have loved her too, so some of the logic went out of the window. Unfortunately her anger was mainly portrayed as her being irrational, I'd have preferred it had she just killed Jon! Fair point on Arya, but it just makes the whole story unnecessary tbh. We spent an awful lot of time with her, and ultimately it was done for effect - showing the horror of this war (which they did excellently). But it didn't go with her character arc, and it was still left to a man to make her see sense. Sansa is still a favourite of mine, but the writers haven't painted her in glory, she has just come across as a spoilt brat and has some responsibility for the massacre. Cersei was the one that did it for me. It was such a weak finish for her. Gutting.

I've desperately tried to enjoy it, and I hate it when people try to be controversial, or even cool by saying they hate these things. But... I hated it. It was shot beautifully, apart from a few baffled effects, but it got boring quickly. They have also gone from empowering all the female characters for years and setting them up in the early part of this series to rule the world, to stereotyping them as weakling. Sansa is the gossip about her sis in law, because she is jealous. Arya was bitter, but gave up on her life mission because the man told her too and she might die. We watch half an hour of her running away scared. Danny has become bitter and twisted because Jon doesn't love her. Yeah, I know it's far more than that, but they portrayed that as the tipping point. Irrational woman kills thousands because she is heartbroken. Cersei. Gutted. The best character in the whole show, basically had no plan, spent most of the episode crying because she was losing power, then ran crying to her Male lover saying she doesn't want to die. Would they ever do that with a Male character? No, they get the heroic stubborn death scenes. They have abandoned a lot of what they have built up over 8 years for fancy set pieces. On Arya, her presence really grated all night. She must have had 3 death scenes, only for her to wake up again a few mins later. My only hope with this is that she is actually dead, and the dream-like sequence of her on the white horse was her in the after-life, but GoT doesn't really do subtle or ambiguous like that, so I suspect she really did just find a random white horse. Quite frankly I couldn't care less about Jon Snow.

Yes, I get that, but the pathetic bit is wanting your own team to lose just to hinder another team. There is never an excuse for that. Ever.

I have found some of the 'rivalries' fascinating this year. I lost any slight bit of respect I may have had for the Man Utd fans who wanted Man City to beat their own team just so Liverpool wouldn't win the league. All the while, these Man Utd fans are claiming some kind of moral high ground against the 'horrible scousers'.

Pacing was a huge issue in series 7 too, for a show that prides itself on its excruciatingly slow pace. However I don't necessarily agree with the point about the Night King and his chums. I have never found this element too interesting, and ultimately they were just another army in the end. The real story is the battle for the Iron Throne, and we are now back to it. I cant help but feel that by making the characters annoying, they are setting us up for Cersei to win this whole thing and be on the throne for a long time to come. I'd welcome that as she is the best character by some distance.

Anyway, back to this general sale stuff.....

Well done Liverpool, what a way to win!

Unbelievable stuff!

Meh, it's really not a big deal. Or a deal at all tbh. This big club criticism of City helps Liverpool and United fans feel good about themselves. I remember some Bradford fans always boasting how big a club they were compared to the likes of Wire, even as they were on a rapid decline. I've never really 'got' the big club thing. It's odd imo.

A couple of things here. Firstly, football is not immune to fans being more selective, the costs can be prohibitive. Police figures show some rather low crowds relatively speaking for some supposedly big games over the last couple of years. More and more on the BBC we are seeing swathes of empty seats for Cup matches on TV. That isnt just an RL thing. Secondly, of course the opposition has an impact on demand. It is really dumb to suggest otherwise. It happens in literally every game. As a Wire fan I have seen us take far fewer to Wembley due to opposition and novelty wearing off. I'm not sure why football fans should be any different. It is backward to suggest the demand would be the same for City tickets if they were playing Man Utd in the final. Finally, you may not have seen clubs put tickets on general sale, but clubs normally announce they wont be going on general sale - Watford did this. City announced they would go on general sale if any remained. Maybe Watford wont take the same size allocation as City's 35k. City have taken extra allocations and sold them. The original allocation was c28k I believe. And finally finally, if we see a comparable club making so many Wembley appearances we will soon see some lethargy set in.

What exactly is there to be ashamed of here? Let me guess, your team ain't winning so you have to bang on about how big a club you are? What does it even mean? Whilst you go on about that, City and their fans are going back to Wembley and playing for the League this Sunday. I suppose being called a big club on a forum is important to some.

Which big clubs are you talking about? Watford have stated they will not be putting tickets on general sale (although I can find nothing that says they have sold out yet) - does that make them a big club? In reality there are two huge clubs in the North, Liverpool and United who have support across the country and world. The London clubs should sell out Wembley easily. Clubs who make a one-off appearance like Watford or Wigan should absolutely sell theirs easily on novelty. City have played in Wembley finals around 8 times in the last decade, plus all the semi finals. It really shouldn't be a massive surprise that the demand may be slightly less for this game against Watford. It is an odd criticism when they have announced they have sold out their 35k allocation.

You didn't have the courtesy to answer my question, but asked me about something I hadn't claimed. I'm not sure why.

Your post doesn't relate in the slightest to mine, so I assume you quoted it in error.

I think Mr Wind Up summed it up rather nicely. It is hardly a glamour tie with all respect to Watford. But 35k City fans have bought tickets to sell out the allocation. Personally as a City fan, I'm not particularly surprised. But, tbh, we could have run a ballot and sold the tickets that way and called ourselves a big club. Often when clubs use ballots, they aren't all limited to season ticket holders, but they will get priority, so tickets can be obtained by non-season ticket holders but by balot.

Which other clubs do you mean? Any comparison to London clubs is nonsense on this one. So we are talking Liverpool and United I assume?

Yes, LOD is all about the interview room, and it was absolutely compelling. I think some of the story has been incredibly weak though and has been throughout the 5 series'. This obsession with H and linking everything together instead of just having a separate story is silly. There is no need for it, and tbh it is weakening the show.

If staging a ballot helps 'big clubs' and their fans get one over City and feel better about themselves, good on them.

And that hasn't happened here either. From what I can find online, City have c40,000 season ticket holders, and an allocation of 35k. You will never get 100% of season ticket holders going.

This has become a rather odd thread. Man City have now sold out their allocation of 35,421 tickets. I am sure nobody is embarrassed in the slightest that some tickets went on general sale.

Yeah, I think that is just part of the luck of the draw. I always find it just adds a bizarre dynamic to the games. I think the winner should have put the ball in the net more than the opposition tbh.

I thought the angle from slightly behind the player showed it hit his arm clearly then onto his hip. This angle did not get presented to the ref. For me it was handball. But it is what it is. The away goals thing is a bizarre rule though isnt it? I'm not sure why they award a winner of a drawn game.

I agree, I found some of the tidying up really helpful, even if at times it did feel a bit like a Greatest Hits tour, with all your favourites lined up together. It will be interesting to see how this goes, as I do agree with an article I read that a lot of what has made it popular has gone to one side somewhat now for the grand battles, and tbh I find that a bit boring. The politics and backstabbing are the real points of interest. I am finding the rise of the female roles fascinating in this. Daenerys, Cersei, Sansa and Arya are far better characters than most of the men, and it is interesting that they could be the ones ruling the world rather than the men that were in place in Series 1. Although this boring obsession with Jon Snow is extremely tiresome, hopefully a Dragon eats him.

yup, it would have been a nightmare today if I hadn't watched it in advance. Seen some criticism of the show, but I enjoyed it, although I understand the concern that this was episode 1 of only 6 this series so may have wanted more progress.