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The Great Dane

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Everything posted by The Great Dane

  1. One year doesn't make a pattern, look at the 7 years prior to it... Make the Swans competitive again and their numbers in Sydney will pop right back up, then swap GWS and Brisbane going well for a couple of teams that are actually well supported and their ratings will come back up pretty quickly. As for their expansion being a 'failure', it's going to be at least 10-15 more years before anybody really has an idea whether the AFL's last round of expansion was a success or not, and the AFL knew they were playing the long game with GWS and the GC. However the Swans definitely haven't been a failure, Brisbane on the other hand has never really had sustained success. Whether the NRL is doing fine is debatable (it really depends on your definition of fine), but the NRL would definitely be doing much better with Perth than how it's doing without them, and it'd certainly be doing better with Perth then it would with e.g. the Central Coast.
  2. If the Storm hadn't have given them to a path to the NRL (and largely payed for their development into professional players) most of those players wouldn't be NRL players at all. That is literally creating more professional players. That fact alone gives them the right to call them their juniors. Also your last two points are literally making the point I was originally making for me.
  3. The NRL has higher average ratings, the AFL has higher total ratings. In other words more people in total watch the AFL each year, but more people on average watch the NRL per game. Only because they are playing at a handicap, and it's not by much. They are also growing their market share in non-AFL areas where the NRL has stagnated broadly speaking. And if they had Perth and Adelaide they'd be way bigger then they are now. If Perth isn't crucial where is. And frankly half of the clubs in Sydney aren't crucial yet we're stuck dragging them around despite them not adding anything of value to the competition, so if we can deal with them then I think we can deal with Perth.
  4. That's simply not true. They've had partnerships with clubs in Brisbane and other SEQ based clubs since their earliest days, and their money and resource have gone to developing players that feed into their system in Queensland since that time. In other words they literally produce juniors in Queensland no different than any other club produces 'local' juniors and they always have. Their current partners are the Sunshine Coast Falcons, and the Storm have a lot invested into the Sunshine Coast, arguably more than in Victoria outside of their NRL operations, I mean they literally own the Sunshine Coast Lighting which is the bloody local professional Netball team. It's not uncommon for teams to produce juniors all over the place. The Raiders used to do the same in Brisbane as the Storm are doing on the SSC through a partnership with Souths Logan and their juniors club, it created a direct path from juniors to the NRL through the Raiders, and it produced players like Josh Papalii and Anthony Milford.
  5. Mate I don't have time to explain this to you in detail, but to put it simply, the NRL has to sell it's soul to match the AFL. Compare the AFL's broadcasting deal to the NRL's: The AFL has all it's games on free to air, the NRL doesn't even have half. The AFL has complete control over it's draw, and most of it's matches are played at fan friendly times, the NRL's only has complete control over it's draw in name, and way less of it's games are played at fan friendly times. The NRL only beats the AFL ratings per capita, and the NRL had to murder it's crowds and gate takings to achieve it's high ratings. If the AFL were willing to give up all their control and allow the broadcasters to turn their competition into a 'TV product' then their ratings and the broadcasting rights values would slaughter the NRL's, but they are too smart to do that, and that is why most of their clubs are massively profitable businesses with comparatively huge crowds and memberships, and only one or two of the NRL's clubs are profitable on a annual basis.
  6. Mate, you aren't addressing the point I was making, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. In fact I don't really have an opinion on what you are saying at all.
  7. Yes, but that population is spread across hundereds of thousands of km's, not concentrated in one city. Perth and Adelaide are the only two cities in the top five largest cities in Australia (and top six largest cities in Aus and NZ) that aren't represented in the NRL. BS! As an individual entity an Adelaide club would be worth more to broadcasters than more than half the competition. There presence in the competition would massively increase the value of everybodies sponsorship deals as well. Again, Perth and Adelaide are two of the top five biggest cities in Australia, that make them two of the top five biggest markets in Australia. We aren't talking about the AFL, however their national coverage and market share in their chosen markets is undeniably better than the NRL's. It has nothing to do with copying the AFL, it's about going where the money and people are. If the NRL ever wants to meet it's full potential then it needs to have a presence in all the major capital cities (i.e Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, and Adelaide) and it needs to take a good share of the market in each as well.
  8. I don't necessarily disagree with most of this (however a lot of it is just utter BS), but the person I was responding to was trying to use the Storms lack of success in growing participation numbers in Victoria as a reason not to expand to other non 'heartland' markets. Pointing out to him/her that is largly because the Storm have never really tried to grow participation numbers in Victoria isn't wrong.
  9. Adelaide is the 5th largest city in the country, and SA is one of the most valuable markets in Australia or NZ. It's also a highly desirable market for broadcasters and sponsors. A team in Adelaide is inevitable, and it's madness that so many people will champion places like the PI's and regional cities like the CC or CQ over it. If you don't have a club in Adelaide then you don't have a national comp, and you are leaving tens of millions of dollars on the table.
  10. This is true, however it's also true that over their existence the Storm have invested most of their money and resources for junior development into South East Queensland instead of Victoria. So it's not really fair to say there hasn't been much growth in participation in Victoria when the Storm more or less totally ignored Victoria's juniors and participation numbers until only a few years ago. Also how is expanding into places where people are already playing the sport in numbers going to be better for participation than a new club in Perth or Adelaide? No matter how many teams are in e.g. Brisbane it's not going to have a major effect on participation numbers, but an NRL team in Perth or Adelaide could inspire growth in participation numbers in those cities that will never happen without an NRL club. I don't know Adelaide's numbers, but take WA's for example; when the Reds were around in the 90s RL participation in WA was at it's highest at just over 10k, after the Reds were kicked that number tanked, at their lowest it was under 2k, and these days it's around 4k. Realistically, if you want those numbers back up near 10k then WA is going to need a club again. https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/02/10/25-years-after-reds-perth-is-ready-for-a-new-nrl-team/
  11. The Central Queensland bid folded. Their main backer went broke, and everybody could see that it was a pipe dream anyway.
  12. No not the Brisbane Bombers, but how about a South Brisbane team, that has marketing that targets basically everything south of the river, throw in Ipswich and Logan as well if you like. That has huge potential. You know what'd bring much larger crowds; A large club that represents a large portion of Brisbane's metropolitan area... Actually they do have to make money, or at least be sustainable, because the NRL can't afford to bankroll the sport in the entire Southern Hemisphere, and the reality is that it's extremely unlikely that most of the Pacific Islands would be able to sustain clubs long term. Even if they were sustainable they still wouldn't be as valuable as the major cities in Australia and NZ anyway, so if you are in the NRL's position why would choose e.g. Samoa over Perth, when the reality is that Perth's going to be better for your business.
  13. There's simply no money in it, they'll all be charity cases built on foundations of sand.
  14. It's never too late to do anything, and with the right set up with the right people behind it a second Brisbane club could be extremely successful.
  15. With the possible exception of PNG, I highly doubt that the NRL will expand into the PI's before 2050, if they ever expand into them at all. At the very least I'd put Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch, Melbourne 2, in front of any of the PI's.
  16. Even if they added a Perth club tomorrow, the NRL still wouldn't really be national without at least an Adelaide club as well.
  17. Yep I don't doubt it, but just because it's probably what's going to happen doesn't mean that it's what should happen. Brisbane 2 could/should be the NRL's version Man City to the Broncos Man Utd, but if the Dolphins get the nod it'll just be Brisbane's version of Manly, which is why it'll probably happen, because it's very NRL, and RL in general frankly, to pass up on an opportunity for greatness to take the what they think is the safe and easy road instead.
  18. Uh huh, and where are they now. Also they were talking about playing the odd game in other cities, just like the Warriors do now, not taking half of their season and splitting it between three third world countries. The problem with Bruce and EPIC isn't the distance or the time it takes to get to them so much as it is the locations themselves, i.e. the problem isn't that it's 6km from town (barely anybody lives in town so it's actually much further than 6 km for the vast majority of people), it's that Bruce is in the middle of a suburb with no amenities around it and EPIC is the middle of nowhere with even less. Also as a person that comes from a city where people will regularly complain that it's to far and to hard to attend a game if it's in the next suburb over, and (IIRC) is a Cronulla fan who's memberships and crowds look like they are going to tank because they are temporarily playing in a stadium a couple of suburbs over, you aren't really in a position to talk about lazy fans.
  19. It'd take generations to separate the Dolphins brand from Redcliffe, and the Dolphins are Morton Bay's version of the successful club that everybody loves to hate, so just changing the name from Redcliffe to Morton Bay wouldn't achieve much anyway. Realistically their NRL club would need a total re-brand if it wasn't going to be seen as the Dolphins in drag.
  20. There aren't any NZ bids, so it isn't really an option. Unless you've got someone willing to underwrite the club to the tune of tens of millions of dollars PI teams are a pipe dream, and even if they were feasible no PI team would be as valuable as any of the major capital cities in Australia or NZ. Yeah and I'm sure that you'd embrace it if your local club chose to play half of it games in France and Germany... In trying to appeal to everybody, all you'll achieve is being unappealing to everybody.
  21. Firstly, that's not the argument against a stadium at EPIC at all, nor is that really the complaint against Bruce. Secondly, as a person that probably doesn't really know what EPIC is, let alone the internal politics in Canberra that surround the subject, maybe you should pass on commenting on this subject. Also Suncorp is much closer to Brisbane's CBD than Redcliffe...
  22. It's only recently that NRL clubs have started trying out 7s players, so there isn't a great pool of talent to measure from, but early attempts of trying to convert 7s players have been reasonably successful, arguably more successful then recent attempts to convert full 15 a side RU players. With all due respect to the Wolverines, the average Canadian 7s team member is probably more professional and has much more experience playing at a higher standard of play than your average Canadian RL player, so being realistic if one was going to quickly make the jump to SL standard it's more likely that it'd be a Canadian 7s player than, again with all due respect, what is effectively a low level park footballer in a Canadian RL player. So yeah it wouldn't be my first option if I was the Wolfpack, but if they need a winger/centre/fullback, which are the positions that 7s players tend to excel in, then trying a 7s player out wouldn't be a bad option so long as they can pull it off without breaking the bank.
  23. The last bid from NZ that officially attempted to bid for a license was the Wellington Orcas, and their NRL bid folded after the Titans won the last NRL license in 04. Since then there's not been anybody from NZ that have actually put together a bid (apart from the South Pacific Cyclones, which aren't really an NZ bid), yes there have been people that have proposed bids, but people propose bids every day, that doesn't mean that they actually have the means to organise the bid or that they intend to bid at all, but as far as we know nobody has actually built a bid with the intention to submit that bid to the NRL. So yeah, I don't know what you are talking about because nothing actually existed in NZ in first place for "reluctance to expand" to kill. What killed the Reds was having it sprung on them that they'd have to pay the travel costs of every visiting team as well as their own after they had already excepted the license, and also the general pressures of the SL war. Suddenly their operational costs blew out overnight with a huge cost that they hadn't budgeted for, and it effectively doomed them before they'd even started. BTW, country NSW would not only be a financial disaster, but it'd be a total mess of trying to appeal to way to many people and only achieving in appealing to nobody, and like NZ there is no country NSW bid. Yeah that's not a fact at all... Every major broadcaster has been begging the NRL to add another club in Brisbane for literally decades now, and supposedly they've been offering more and more to make it happen each time. On top of that, not only do the the NRL and NRL owned products (i.e. SOO) make at least 3 of the top 5 rated programs in the country on a regular basis (and something like 4-6 of the top ten regularly as well), which makes it one of the most valuable programs to broadcasters in the Australian market, but when the AFL added an extra game they got roughly an extra 50 million (I forget the exact number), a year per year of the contract, for an extra time slot that is widely considered to be one of the weaker ones, and two clubs that everybody knew would add nothing to their viewership for decades, half of that would more then fund two expansion teams in the NRL and leave a little change to spare. I'm not necessarily saying that expanding the NRL will add anything at all to the broadcasting contracts, in the current climate that's almost impossible for a layman to predict, but to say that it's fact that it won't add much is also impossible to predict.
  24. Apart from a bid that's based in Wellington but isn't really a bid for a team that would represent Wellington or NZ called the South Pacific Cyclones, there currently isn't a bid from NZ. So unless somebody from NZ comes out and bids for a license it's pretty hard to expand to NZ.
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