Celtic Roosters

I had a very quick look at the Yorkshire league tables back then but can't see either of them? Doesn't mean your wrong. I just don't have time now to scour through each season. I remember well the RLC kicking off in a blaze of glory. Manchester Knights first game, at home to Wolverhampton Wizards attracted the local TV news programme. They were led out by a Knight mascot. That was my youngest Son, who is 39 now!

Ok then - I have been told that they are not allowed to adjudicate on forward passes. I don't know if this is true or not and don't really care that much anymore. I can't be bothered defending myself on the other points but there will be plenty of people nodding in agreement without getting involved for fear of being called a dinosaur.

It's great to find people who have interest in the amateur game Bowes and thanks for the info in your previous post, although I stopped collecting stats about 5 years ago now. I have most of the Yorkshire league tables from the 70's to it's demise but I have too many projects going at the moment to look through those find them now, do you mean the Yorkshire Mens League (Summer comp)? Apart from what I'm posting on here - people and clubs contact me privately for info and I'm currently helping a couple of guys in Glasgow and Italy with information.

There was very little doubt about forward passes back then because, what you now call "flat", and is allowed - was forward. I've no problem with that rule change but it's abused. When 500 people shout in unison "Forward", when they don't do it at every pass, it is because they have seen a forward pass. Yet the officials, who are much closer don't see it? Yes, to err is human but I don't believe that's the case? I'm told touch judges are not allowed to put their flag up for a forward pass? Maybe they should be? I'm only bitter about the amount of time I wasted promoting the game around the Country. I've just had an e-mail today from Salford Councillor - Jack Youd. He's looking to revive the local Valentine cup competition for amateur clubs. It's been played for from at least 1902 and for a short time I ran the competition myself, but it's not been competed for since 2012. He made some enquiries and everybody he spoke to told him to contact me. I have sent him all the info I have. The cup was so precious that the teams in recent times were awarded a replica because it would cost too much in insurance to let the winning club keep the original. I once made a appointment to view the original and make a note of all the previous winners and form then on I carried on recording the scores of the final. I don't hate Rugby League. I hate what has become.

I talk flippantly sometimes mate, and I like to have a laugh when I can because I just don't take the game seriously any more, but deep down I'm very bitter and feel that I spent so much time promoting the game (the whole game) only for the powers that be to ruin it. The amateur game is a shadow of what it was - see the London club thread for proof. There's nothing I can do about it so I just find it easier to laugh it off rather than get angry. Any points I make though are what I genuinely feel so I won't hold back.

1998-99 season. NCL division 2 final positions - 1/ Ideal Isberg, 2/ Eccles, 3/ Blackbrook, 4/ Eastmoor Dragons, 5/ Hull Dockers, 6/ Crosfields, 7/ London Skolars, 8/ Normanton Knights, 9/ Dodworth, 10/ Dewsbury Moor, 11/ New Earswick All Blacks, 12/ York Acorn, 13/ Keighley Albion, 14/ Ovenden. London Skolars results - Blackbrook H W 20-10 A L 4-24, Crosfields H L 10-30 A L 12-28, Dewsbury Moor H W 36-16 A L 22-24, Dodworth H 36-14 A W 18-12, Eastmoor Dragons H L 24-28 A L 22-34, Eccles H L 14-34 I went to this game A L 20-34, Hull Dockers H W 28-20 A L 16-22, Ideal Isberg H L 22-26 A L 12-19, Keighley Albion H W 24-10 A W 20-19, New Earswick All Blacks H W 22-8 A W 18-12, Normanton Knights H W 20-8 A W 34-20, Ovenden H 24-6 A Not played the result of the home game expunged as Ovenden were expelled from the league after 18 fixtures, York Acorn H W 30-20 A L 6-15. I don't have league tables for Winter leagues outside of Cumbria, Lancashire and with no BARLA Handbooks anymore I'm not certain which leagues continued. Those clubs still entered the cup competitions though. BARLA National cup Preliminary round - Latchford Albion (Warrington) 50 Teeside Steelers 4, London Colonials w/o .v. Gateshead Panthers, Metropolitan Police 34 Kinsley & Ryhill (Wakefield) 16, Sunderland City 12 Illingworth (Halifax) 56. Round 1 - London Colonials 18 Normanton Knights 16, London Skolars 26 Norland (Hull) 28, Middleton Marauders (Leeds) 54 Metropolitan Police 8. Round 2 - Millom 38 London Colonials 2.Challenge cup Round 1 - Barrow Island 24 University of Wales Institute (Cardiff) 4, Eccles 78 Garibaldi 10, Gateshead panthers 10 Crosfields (Warrington) 58, London Skolars 16 Thatto Heath 4, Scottish Border Eagles (Hawick) 10 Wath Brow Hornets 34,Siddal 90 Northside Saints (Dublin) 10. Round 2 - Wath Brow Hornets 16 London Skolars 10. 1999 RFL Summer Conference final positions - Eastern Division - 1/ Ipswich Rhinos, 2/ Hemel Hempstead Stags, 3/ South Norfolk Saints (Thetford), 4/ Cambridge Eagles, 5/ Bedford Swifts. Northern Division - 1/ Chester Wolves, 2/ Manchester Knights, 3/ Nottingham Outlaws, 4/ Derby City, 5/ Crewe Wolves. Southern Division - 1/ Crawley Jets, 2/ Oxford Cavaliers, 3/ West London Sharks, 4/ North London Skolars (London Skolars 'A'?), 5/ St. Albans Centurians. Western Division - 1/ Cheltenham Warriors, 2/ Leicester Phoenix, 3/ Birmingham Bulls, 4/ Worcestershire Saints, 5/ Wolverhampton Wizards. Scottish Division - 1/ Edinburgh Eagles, 2/ Portabello Playboys, 3/ Glasgow Bulls, 4/ Border Raiders, 5/ Lomond Valley Raiders, 6/ Linlithgow Lions. Scottish Grand final:- Edinburgh Eagles 48 Portabello Playboys 20. Harry Jepson Trophy South East semi-finals - Crawley Jets 16 Hemel Hempstead Stags 18 NB Hemel were expelled for playing 2 ineligible players, Ipswich Rhinos 16 Oxford Cavaliers 31. Final:- Crawley Jets 54 Oxford Cavaliers16. North West Semi-finals - Cheltenham Warriors 41 Manchester Knights 6, Chester Wolves 30 Leicester Phoenix 10. Final:- Chester Wolves 27 Cheltenham Warriors 16. Grand final (at North London Skolars):- Chester Wolves 26 Crawley Jets 24. 1999-2000 season. NCL division 2 final positions - 1/ Eastmoor Dragons, 2/ West Bowling, 3/ Waterhead, 4/ Crosfields, 5/ Hull Dockers, 6/ Normanton Knights, 7/ Dewsbury Moor, 8/ Milford Marlins, 9/ Keighley Albion, 10/ New Earswick All Blacks, 11/ Sheffield Hillsborough Hawks, 12/ Castleford Panthers, 13/ York Acorn, 14/ London Skolars. London Skolars results - Castleford Panthers H W 14-9 A L 16-22, Crosfields H L 10-22 A L 10-31, Dewsbury Moor H W 31-30 A L 2-28, Eastmoor Dragons H L 8-19 A L 12-32, Hull Dockers H L 16-28 A L 4-6, Keighley Albion H L 4-32 A L 13-15, Milford Marlins H D 16-16 A L 8-34, New Earswick All Blacks H L 14-26 A L 14-17, Normanton Knights H L 0-22 A W 17-14, Sheffield Hillsborough Hawks H L 14-25 A L 16-22, Waterhead L 16-32 A L 28-34, West Bowling H L 12-36 A L 16-44, York Acorn H W 18-6 A W 24-21. Again I'm not sure which leagues operated outside the heartlands this Winter but some clubs appeared in the cup competitions again. BARLA National Cup Preliminary round - East Hull 14 University of Wales Institute (Cardiff) 8, London Colonials 26 Wigan Rose Bridge 34, Moldgreen (Huddersfield) 52 Metropolitan Police 12, Sunderland City 0 Illingworth (Halifax) 58, Walney Central 'A' (Barrow) 40 Teeside Steelers 22, Wigan St. Cuthberts w/o .v. Twickenham St. Marys. Round 1 - London Skolars 0 Hull Dockers 16. Challenge cup Round 1 - Dublin Blues 2 Farnworth Ring 'o' Bells (Widnes) 54, Durham City Tigers 6 Cardiff Cougars 36 NB I watched this game and I think the Cardiff team were the University side?, Edinburgh Eagles 12 Woolston Rovers (Warrington) 17, Wigan St. Judes 36 London Skolars 12. Round 2 - Cardiff Cougars 18 Rochdale Mayfield 10. Round 3 - Keighley 90 Cardiff Cougars 0. 2000 RFL Summer Conference final positions - Eastern Division - 1/ Hemel Hempstead Stags, 2/ South Norfolk Saints, 3/ St. Albans Centurians, 4/ Ipswich Rhinos, 5/ Cambridge Eagles, 6/ Bedford Swifts. Northern Division - 1/ Manchester Kinghts, 2/ Rotherham Giants, 3/ Chester Wolves, 4/ Nottingham Outlaws, 5/ Derby City, 6/ Crewe Wolves. Southern Division - 1/ North London Skolars, 2/ Crawley Jets, 3/ West London Sharks, 4/ Oxford Cavaliers, 5/ Kingston Warriors (London), 6/ South London Storm. Western Division - 1/ Birmingham Bulldogs, 2/ Coventry Bears, 3/ Gloucestershire Warriors, 4/ Leicester Phoenix, 5/ Worcestershire Saints, 6/ Wolverhampton Wizards. Scottish Division - 1/ Edinburgh Eagles, 2/ Border Raiders, 3/ Rhu Raiders, 4/ Glasgow Bulls, 5/ Portabello Playboys, 6/ Linlithgow Lions. Scottish Grand final:- Glasgow Bulls 47 Edinburgh Eagles 22. Harry Jepson Trophy South East Preliminary final - Crawley Jets 41 South Norfolk Saints 22. North West Preliminary final - Coventry Bears 17 Rotherham Giants 18. Grand final (at Coventry RUFC):- Crawley Jets 38 Rotherham Giants 22. I went to this game. I'm out all day tomorrow so I will probably post some more on Thursday.

I like to keep you truth denying lads entertained Lee. Honestly, I don't like "dissing" RL but I have to be honest. I've done more than most to promote RL since I first got involved in the 70's and the amateur game in 1987 but the product now is nothing like the product I dedicated a large part of my life to. There will be many who share my opinion but they are unlikely to comment because they don't like knocking the game, and it is still the best sport on the planet for me - just no longer the same experience. Far too predictable now, and when people offer examples to me to try and prove me wrong it's always Super greed. There is far more to RL than Super greed, although you wouldn't think so if you were not a fan of the game. There is only one other regular RL fan in my local pub and on the rare occasions that it's on the TV in there, the rest of them are saying "That was a forward pass wasn't it Ken? I thought that was illegal".

2 out of 20 is not a good ratio. There is a forward pass in nearly every set of 6 in todays game - they are bound to pull one or two just to prevent it becoming even more of a farce than it already is. The referee's certainly don't enforce the laws today as strictly as they did when i got involved in the game. What about not playing the ball properly - every now and again they pull somebody for it (depending on the team) when the ball is hardly ever played in accordance with the law. We have never owned a dodgy fire stick by the way and if my Wife wasn't here I would probably get rid of the TV. If you enjoy it carry on kidding yourself and refusing to believe your own eyes. The closer the players are the more forward they can pass it.

1997-98 season. London Student Rugby League Old Boys were admitted to the NCL division 2 and finishing positions were - 1/ Featherstone Lions, 2/ Siddal, 3/ Hull Dockers, 4/ Eccles, 5/ Normanton Knights, 6/ New Earswick All Blacks, 7/ York Acorn, 8/ Ovenden, 9/ Crosfields, 10/ Dewsbury Moor, 11/ LSRLOB, 12/ Dodworth. LSRLOB results were Crosfields H W 28-16 A L 10-32, Dewsbury Moor H W 26-18 A L 22-33, Dodworth H W 26-14 A L 4-48, Eccles H L 0-34 A L 2-36, Featherstone Lions H L 26-27 A L 10-56, Hull Dockers H L 2-16 A L 6-26, New Earswick All Blacks H L 24-28 A L 10-20, Normanton Knights H L 16-32 A L 7-66, Ovenden H W 42-18 A L 36-38, Siddal H L 12-24 A L 14-24, York Acorn H L 10-46 A L 0-32. LSRLOB changed their name to London Skolars at the end of this season. The last BARLA handbook was issued this season but it didn't include any league tables. Leagues outside the heartlands consisted of East Midlands ARL - Birmingham, Clowne, Derby City, Garibaldi, Leicester, Nottingham Crusaders, Nottingham Paviours and Toyota Tigers (Ilkeston). London ARL - Aylesbury Bears, Bedford Swifts, Basingstoke beasts, Brent Ealing, Cambridge Eagles, Crawley, East London, Fulham Travellers, Hemel Hempstead, Huntingdon Bombers, Ipswich Rhinos, Kingston, London Colonials, London Student Rugby League Old Boys 'A', Metropolitan Police, Reading Raiders, St. Albans Centurians, St. Albans Centurians, Twickenham, Uxbridge Blues. North East ARL - Benfield Lions, Blyth Bulldogs, Border Lions (Catterick), Boulmer Falcons, Durham City Tigers, Durham University, Gateshead Mets Academy, Gateshead Panthers, Glasgow, Newcastle Eagles,Newcastle university, Northumbria University, R.A.F Leeming, South Shields Raiders, Sunderland City, Sunderland University, University of Teeside, Teeside Steelers and Whitley Bay Barbarians. BARLA National cup Round 1 - Brighouse Rangers (Halifax) w/o .v. Metropolitan Police, Cambridge Eagles failed fixture .v. Knottingley Rockware (Castleford), Fulham Travellers 74 Reading Raiders 24, Kingston failed fixture .v. Ryhill & Havercroft (Wakefield), Moorends (Doncaster) 32 London Student Rugby League Old Boys 'A' 2, Nottingham Crusaders w/o .v. Woolston Rovers 'A', Teeside Steelers 28 St. Nicholas Arms (Carlisle) 60, Uxbridge Blues 18 Keighley Albion 'A' 23. Round 2 - Barrow Island 26 London Student Rugby League Old Boys 8, Norland (Hull) w/o .v. Fulham Travellers, Nottingham Crusaders 19 Stanninley 40. Challenge cup Round 1 - Charleston Knights (Hull) w/o .v. London Colonials, Dewsbury Moor 32 Dublin Blues 7, Oulton Raiders 36 Loughborough University 16, Stanningley 50 Nottingham Crusaders 16, London Student Rugby League Old Boys 10 Myton warriors (Hull) 12, Teeside Steelers 10 Leeds University 48, Worth Village (Keighley) 32 Fulham Travellers 4. 1998 RFL Summer Conference final positions - Northern division - 1/ Chester Wolves, 2/ Leicester Phoenix, 3/ Birmingham Bulls, 4/ Worcester Royals, 5/ Cheltenham Warriors. Eastern division - 1/ South Norfolk Saints, 2/ Ipswich Rhinos, 3/ Cambridge Eagles, 4/ Bedford Swifts. Western division - 1/ Crawley Jets, 2/ St. Albans Centurians, 3/ West London Sharks, 4/ Oxford Cavaliers, 5/ North London Skolars NB I'm quite certain that this was London Student Old Boys 'A' team. Scottish division - 1/ Border Raiders, 2/ Edinburgh Eagles, 3/ Glasgow Bulls, 4, Loch Lomond Raiders, 5, Linlithgow Lions. Scottish Grand final:- Border Raiders 40 Edinburgh Eagles 14. Harry Jepson Trophy Semi finals:- Crawley Jets 26 St. Albans centurians 14, South Norfolk Saints 34 Chester Wolves 16. Final (at Prince of Wales stadium, Cheltenham) - Crawley Jets 40 South Norfolk Saints 12. I'll try and put some more on tomorrow now.

Because I know you love it really.I've watched 2 games live and 2 on TV so far this season. I will watch more, when the non league football season ends, but not on a Thursday because it's darts night. We'll just have to agree to disagree about the forward passing then and I will just accept that you have nothing to compare the modern game against because you didn't watch it when referee's enforced the laws. Keep smiling.

Best names I can think of for an amateur club was in the Hull leagues 70's or 80's - Humber Manure ARLFC. The club I played for was Staff of Life ARLFC - a pub team, later changed their name to Swinton Victoria then Swinton Bulldogs but in their very last season they changed the name to Swinton I.P. Not many knew what I.P stood for but it was Irate Puppies!

If you were there 35 years ago you would know they existed but happened rarely, and when they did, the officials penalised them. It all changed in 1996 for some reason. Two wrongs don't make a right in any case. Rugby League is a joke now. I've watched 2 games live and 2 on TV so far this season.

I hope Jonny is OK. I watched him grow up, following Eccles to watch his dad play. Nice lad and he always had a RL ball in his hands. His dad was a very decent hooker or loose forward and he captained Great Britain amateurs on tour.

I believe Highfield have been Wigan Highfield, London Highfield, Liverpool City, Huyton (What a charming ground that was'nt), Highfield (Where they played at St. helens Town FC near St. Helens junction station), Runcorn Highfield and finally Prescot Panthers. Don't think I've missed any incarnations? 1995-96 season - East Midlands ARL final positions - 1/ Clowne 'A', 2/ Birmingham, 3. West Midlands Police, 4/ Bulwell Panthers, 5/ Derby City, 6/ Garibaldi 'A', 7/ Nottingham Crusaders, 8/ Leicester. Other members:- Redditch Halcyon and Shirebrook. London ARL final positions - Division 1 - 1/ London Student Rugby League Old Boys (Later London Skolars), 2/ Fulham Travellers, 3/ Brent Ealing 4/ London Colonials, 5/ Peckham, 6/ Hemel Hempstead 'A', 7/ Surrey Heath. Division 2 North East - 1/ Ipswich Rhinos, 2/ London Student Rugby League Old Boys 'A', 3/ Aylesbury Bears, 4/ Cambridge Eagles, 5/ Huntingdon Bombers, 6/ East London. Division 2 South West - 1/ Basingstoke Beasts, 2/ Uxbridge Blues, 3/ Ashford (Kent), 4/ Swindon Bulldogs, 5/ Reading/ 6/ Brent Ealing 'A'. Other members:- Bognor Regis, Hillingdon and St. Marys. North East ARL final positions - 1/ Gateshead Panthers, 2/ Teeside Steelers, 3/ Durham University, 4/ Sunderland City, 5/ Border Lions (Catterick), 6/ Glasgow, 7/ Teeside University, 8/ Durham City Tigers, 10/ Other members:- Framwell Moor, Hartlepool, Sedgfield, South Shields Raiders and Whtley Bay Barbarians. I don't have league tables for the following leagues but they consisted of Eastern Counties ARL - Cambridge Eagles, Felixtowe, Hemel Hempstead, Northampton, Peterborough and St. Ives Sharks. Welsh ARL - Aberavon, Cardiff I.H.E, Holyhead, North Gower, North Wales Coasters, Swansea Knights, Tawe Dulais Raiders, U.C Swansea and Wrexham Raiders. BARLA National cup Round 1 - Aspatria (Carlisle) 30 London Student Rugby League Old Boys 10, Cambridge Eagles 18 Glasson Rangers (Cumbria) 48, Clowne 24 Batley Victoria 38, Featherstone Amateurs w/o .v. South London, Fulham Travellers 11 Eastmoor Select (Wakefield) 16, Gateshead Panthers 10 Brighouse Rangers (Halifax) 13, London Colonials 34 Haresfinch (St. Helens) 14, Metropolitan Police 31 St. Nicholas Arms (Carlisle) 32, Moorends (Doncaster) w/o .v. West Midlands Police, Prestwich (Manchester) 42 North Wales Coasters 12, Queensbury (Bradford) 46 Birmingham 6, Reckitts (Hull) 32 Brent Ealing 20, Surrey Heath 6 Pilkingtons Recreation 64, Swindon 21 Peckham 40, Thornhill Rangers (Dewsbury) 42 Nottingham Crusaders 10. Round 2 - Wath Brow Hornets w/o .v. Peckham, Weaverham Rangers (Cheshire) w/o .v. Bulwell Panthers, Widnes St. Maries 44 London Colonials 4. Regal Trophy - Round 1 - Chorley 92 Nottingham City 0, Highfield 48 Hemel Hempstead 18. Challenge cup Round - Hemel Hempstead 32 Worth Village (Keighley) 8, Heworth 34 London Student Rugby League Old Boys 6, Nottingham City 10 West Bowling (Bradford) 74, West Hull 100 Durham University 2. Round 2 - Thronhill (Dewsbury) 44 Hemel Hempstead 26. 1996-97 season - I don't have any of the League tables for this season but the leagues consisited of East Midlands ARL - Birmingham, Clowne, Derby City, Garibaldi, Leicester, Nottingham Crusaders, Nottingham Paviours and West Midlands Police. London ARL - Ashford (Romney), Aylesbury Bears, Basingstoke Beasts, Brent Ealing, Cambridge Eagles, East London, Fulham Travellers, Hemel hempstead, Huntingdon Bombers, Ipswich, Kingston (Surrey Heath), London Colonials, London Student Rugby League Old Boys, London Warriors (South London), Metropolitan Police, Peckham, Reading, Swindon Bulldogs, Twickenham, United Services (Chatham) and Uxbridge Blues. North East ARL - Benfield Lions, Blyth Bulldogs, Border Lions, Boulmer Falcons, Cramlington Cougars, Durham City Tigers, Durham University, Framwellgate Moor, Gateshead Mets Academy, Gateshead Panthers, Glasgow, Newcastle Eagle and Newcastle University, Northumbria University, R.A.F Leeming, South Shields Raiders, Sunderland City, Sunderland University, University of Teeside, Teeside Steelers and Whitley Bay Barbarians. BARLA National cup - Preliminary round - Hoyland Vikings (Barnsley) 13 London Colonials 64. Round 1 - Ackworth (Wakefield) 40 Bridlington Trinity 6, Brent Ealing failed fixture .v. Burwell, Reid & Kinghorn (Leeds), Ellenborough Rangers (Cumbria) w/o .v. North Wales Coasters, Illingworth (Halifax) 28 Teeside Steelers 17, Kingston 10 Oulton Raiders (Leeds) 78, London Colonials w/o .v. Upton & Frickley (Doncaster), Mirfield (Dewsbury) 24 Uxbridge Blues 9, Norland (Hull) 48 Fulham Travellers 8, London Student Rugby League Old Boys18 Ideal A.B.I (Hull) 40, Todmorden 34 Metropolitan Police 8, Walden Wasps (Cambridge) 18 Birmingham 34. Round 2 - Birmingham 6 Queens (Leeds) 46, Lock Lane (Castleford) 34 London Colonials 20. Challenge cup - Round 1 - Hemel Hempstead 12 Leeds University 26, Heworth 24 London Student Rugby League Old Boys 8, Moldgreen (Huddersfield) w/o .v. Durham University, Redhill (Castleford) 33 London Colonials 12, Woolston Rovers 82 Gatehead Panthers 4. 1997 RFL summer conference Final positions - Central division - 1/ Leicester Phoenix, 2/ Birmingham, 3. Worcester Royals, 4/ Oxford Cavaliers, 5/ Bedford Swifts. Eastern division - 1/ North London Skolars, 2/ West London, 3/ Ipswich Rhinos, 4/ Cambridge eagles, 5/ Kingston (London). Scottish division - 1/ Lomond Valley Raiders, 2/ Central Centurians, 3/ Linlithgow Lions, 4/ Inversness, 5/ Whitecraggs Warriors. Harry Jepson trophy - Semi finals - Leicester Phoenix w/o .v. West London, North London Skolars 18 Birmingham 16. Final (at Staines) - Leicester Phoenix 16 North London Skolars 32. I'll add some more either later today or tomorrow.

It's rife now mate. Any doubt in the 80's and the referee did his job.