Captain Survival

OK EVERYONE - YOUR OTTAWA BORN AND RAISED EXPERT IS ON HAND TO ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS AND ALLAY ALL DOUBTS! Once again regretfully I have been away from the forum for awhile and I returned tonight as I finally had a little time on my hands and I saw the great news! I cancelled seeing John Wick 3 for the 9th time - staying and answering your questions was that important to me! Its a long post but its only because I multiqouted as i read through all prior 10 pgs - thank goodness it was not the usual 25 "I hate all things Wolfpack" like when I first joined this forum. I do quick answers to each quote and then a few more observations below. Its not a hard read. Sidenote #1: I went to St Pats in Ottawa as did my father. They did. I would say perhaps the most influential communities were Irish and Italian. I have family on both sides. sidenote #2: For those of you who know Ottawa, a family member on the Italian side managed the Prescott Hotel - famous drinking establishment/watering hole in little Italy, and my parents in fact had their wedding reception there (2nd floor is much nicer). Its now quite tame. It was not back then. Worse. I discuss this more below although not nearly as bad as when I grew up. Ottawa is one place where the impact of climate change is really visible for anyone who has lived there for decades. Much to far to walk. The new LRT system in Ottawa would allow you to scoot over to the Carleton University stop and then either walk or take a bus. I see those images and my mouth is already watering at the prospect of beaver tails and hot chocolate. Oh the memories..... There was a time when Ottawa winters and weather were so legendary that if you said you were from Ottawa people from anywhere else in Canada looked upon you with pity - its winters were that notorious. That is because the Ottawa Valley is a bit of a unique microclimate trapped between 2 major zones or so I am told. In my youthful days it started snowing at the beginning of November (snow that usually stayed on the ground) and stopped in late April, and Dec through March were reliably -15C or colder (sometimes much much colder) almost every single day. In my working career I have lived in 7 out of 10 provinces as well as one territory. Ottawa was one of the worst hands down if you hate winter. Those days are gone. Ottawa winters are a shadow of yesteryear. But unless they dome the field there will be no rugby until April. Sidenote #3: I used to own 16 pairs of cross country skis (I was a competitive skier), 4 pairs of snowshoes (I used to race in carnival events) and 3 pairs of downhill skis -> only pansies use downhill skis to go downhill - i used my cross country skis - its called telemarking. Ottawa has the 4th largest CMA in Canada after Toronto, Montreal and Vancover. It is about 1.25 million. Ottawa proper is about 1 million people. Its a great town to visit due to accessibility of outdoors, many national museums, beaches right in the city, major urban parks, the Rideau Canal, Byward Market Area, etc. Plus lots of high quality maple syrup from local sugarbushes. Worth its weight in gold. None. Zero. Zilch. Whoever is saying such must be smoking something green and very powerful and hallucinogenic, said substance being legal here but leading its users to be prone to outlandish figures of speech that have no basis in any reality other then their imaginary one. I played snowcrosse, snowball, snowshoe racing and cross country sking in the stadium at various times (not all legally I might add and very few of you would be familiar with these exotic sports...). But alas I think Rugby players are not tough enough for Ottawa conditions in Feb/March although I personally played many a football game in the early winter. By football I mean real full contact North American football not that pansy thing with the round ball and fake injuries they play in Europe... I got trapped in Ice on the Ottawa River once so I know your pain. Actually I have been trapped in ice a few times regretfully. Never let it be said I learn from my mistakes! Rumour has it that Perez is going to invite players from several Central and South American clubs to try out as each one of these countries has a diplomatic presence and community in Ottawa. Especially Jamaica, Chile and a few others. I made up that rumour now but I think it is a good idea! Seriously since he is planning a slower approach why not? There are likely some players good enough from what we saw in the 9's recently to give a shot to a few. Its L1, not Championship or SL. I think the crowd sizes in Ottawa will surprise you all. Ottawa has a much larger rugby culture already in place then Toronto ever had. Both universities have rugby teams. Both have dedicated practice facilities and Ottawa U even has a its own field just for the varsity team! There is a dedicated rugby park for children and adult leagues. Several high schools play the game. Given time I think they can grow a talent pool. And attract some players from down south to contribute to that pool. People in Ottawa did not grow up knowing soccer. Outdoor rugged sports are the historical norm in the city: football, field lacrosse, rugby, log rolling, beaver wrestling, etc are what most Ottawa people grew up with. I had never seen a soccer ball until I left the city. We did not play it in school. That has changed of course but soccer is not the big sport in the city. The ownership group behind the Ottawa franchise is incredibly well healed. Its not a poor group but a very professional set of owners for which the headline partner already owns every major sporting team in the area other then the NHL hockey team. I think Ottawa will have no issues drawing north of 5k people every game. IF the ownership group targets correctly I believe they could do much better then that. I favour a team in Montreal for the next Canadian entrant. I know the Wolfpack have made some major inroads into broadcast and I suspect an Ottawa team will make all such broadcasters even more interested. SEE. I did not lie. Short easy to swallow paragraphs with semi-interesting biographical details for bonuses. And all facts. Almost no hearsay. I will gratefully accept your accolades now... and even answer a few Ottawa questions from time to time. Going to call all my lawyer friends in Ottawa and get the scoop asap. I only consumed a modest amount of wine (1 bottle but I am 6'1" and 225 pnds of imagined muscle so that is not an overt amount to consume IMHO) during the making of this post. SUPER NEWS!

I like New York Empire. All New Yorkers know Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal due to rivalries in various major North American sports. I agree that Boston, Philly, and perhaps Pittsburgh or Baltimore would be potential targets . Other alternatives might be Detroit, Cincinnati, or Cleveland. It was a good article. I noticed they also published a prior one in 2017 on Toronto. But it will take exposure in one of the New York rags and a concerted effort among expat communities as well as rugby fans in order to put to help put bums in the seats. In America it will help to get a big name personality, such as a movie star to help promote.

Looks like a nice day to me. Perfect fall football weather in Ottawa. I believe I know 3 of the participating partners in the Ottawa bid and as I indicated in a prior recent post the headline partner has deep enough pockets that had this this venture just been them alone they could have afforded to look at the very long term. In fact anytime they place bodies in an otherwise empty stadium that they own, and sell concessions. they are already ahead of the game. They will only need a few inflatables to satisfy all the paranoids here and elsewhere. The rest can be real people eating and drinking and having fun, although I am aware that latter is a terrible prospect to some of you "dry" northern Englanders. The absolute joy witnessed in the Wolfpack crowds must be a bitter pill to some but be prepared as the Ottawa crowd will be even a worse cross to bear. The prospect of their city being part of something international will have fans giddy - Ottawa always has an inferiority complex about such matters being the small sister sandwiched between Montreal and Toronto, and when they get a chance to shine they positively glow. The horror. Perez indicated in his remarks in Salford that he was looking to really grow the game at all levels and Ottawa already has a base of rugby at youth to university levels so he is not starting from scratch. Having a pro team will just redouble interest in the sport. In my opinion it will be easier to grow youth leagues in Ottawa - the city is just better set up for it. I think Ottawa will draw significant numbers in its first season. I expect you will see Toronto pop down for a preseason trial to help ramp up interest and probably Toronto go to NY as well for a game. I am even tempted to suggest that Ottawa will draw as much as Toronto. The field is so easily accessible. As for NY, I am going to draw on my past finance and business experience for my thoughts. This includes having been involved in financing of two major sporting organizations, one which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs, the other the Dallas Cowboys. American culture surrounding sports is very much go big (or go home in some instances). No one makes more out of a molehill then any American promoting a professional sport. I suspect the pockets of the US parties are deep. I don't know anything about the public promoters but I think there might be a legitimate concern about attendance. I have no doubt they will draw thousands of spectators but I wonder what they need to draw to approach viability. Is 10k enough? I don't know the answer. Its a good stadium and on public transit but it is a bit remote by NY standards. One plus is that there are approx 50k Canadians living within reasonable commute of the stadium. This will help for the draw for a few games as will the very sizeable UK expats living there. And rugby does have some presence. These 3 are most likely the initial target markets of the promoters. That said might another market like Philadelphia, Montreal or Baltimore been a better first target? I believe this is a valid question however, I think from an American perspective if a pro sport is going to be successful NY is likely one of the first places one has to test the waters in order to gain credibility. Part of me thinks that if you had Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal up and successful first - I leave how each measures success up to you (is someone barking on the forum about youth leagues again as I saw an inference that he was) I think it would be much easier to convince a trio of American cities in the North East to jump on board since they likely are already rivals in pro hockey, soccer and lacrosse. Another aspect of American culture is that they are not interested in playing in the third string league. It might be tolerated for a very short term but my gut check is that they will be looking to fly a path similar to Toronto. Escalate out of L1 right after the first year and once in Championship set a firm course to SL as soon as possible. It might help if League One were not such a boring name. If both teams get in plus I thought there were overtures from a couple of EU mainland prospects management should consider renaming it to something more "grand" although all the best candidates such as the "International Rugby League" are already in use. Maybe "Trans Atlantic Rugby Football League" or something like that. Americans like being part of something important. That sounds important. I know Perez indicated he left the Wolfpack as his vision (which is world building essentially) was different then that of David Argyle et al but from what I understand they are all on good terms - just wanted to do things differently. I read an inference in this thread that it was a bad parting. To my best knowledge it is nothing of the kind. 3 guesses as to who the coach will be....

Really? I did not know. I saw mention of it in a prior comment They are risking legal issues if they continue.

According to this tweet RL has accepted the Ottawa club payment for entry into L1 in 2020; Tweet They also reference in prior tweets a lot of activity from RL players expressing an interest in joining the club. I am glad Hamilton was not a consideration for many reasons I gave on the forum in 2017 posts. On the issue of free tickets, like others here who have attended games I have not met anyone with free tickets. I am certain they exists in the corporate allotments and so on. But I always paid my way. I have to say that I think the club has made a lot of money on concessions, and if you were one of the away fans who came over to Toronto you know exactly what I mean. I really wish they could use Ottawa RoughRiders but the name is owned by a party that will not release it. It was the name of the former CFL club of which I have great memories. Tom Clements, Tony Gabriel, Condredge Holloway and many more- they were a CFL team to be reckoned with in my youth. I read some of Parky's comments. I found them disingenuous, full of triviality, and unsupported and unsubstantiated statements. We are all entitled to an opinion to be sure but the narrow mind and scope and adamant, striding nature on a continual basis is astonishing.

There were a few times where I thought I might have to jump in to get your back when you were a little "over the top" on the forum but most of the time I saw you managed to extricate yourself without to many bumps and bruises, usually! Actually Ottawa has a very large Irish community (I am 2nd gen Canadian of Irish descent) and a lot of Irish players would find a very warm welcome in Ottawa. So would players from anywhere in the Med (Serbia for example if we loosely classify that as part of the med), or Jamaica. My understanding is that like TWP, the team is entirely self financed for all aspects until it does or does not reach SL. I don't know if there is a time limitation - I don't think the matter of a time limits is clear even for TWP or if it is I missed that point. I do not believe TWP is receiving any Championship funding at this time, to my best knowledge. If someone else has more info please chip in. ========= Air Transat is going to be running the flights as they do for TWP. In fact all sides get to improve costs as I think they will run both teams across simultaneously. Air Transat flies out of Montreal (its home), Toronto and Ottawa. Something mentioned above - both Ottawa University and Carlton University (Ottawa has 2 major universities each with over 25k students in them) have both mens and womens rugby teams. And Ottawa U actually has a dedicated soccer and rugby practice field - Matt Anthony Field which has a FIFA-recommended 2-Star designation, the highest synthetic turf rating possible. Ottawa also has 2 indoor field facilities: The Gee-Gees field and The Louis Riel Dome. The Gee-Gees field is a football and soccer field stadium and to quote: The field is also fitted with a dome for use during the winter months, which provides opportunities to be utilized by the schools varsity teams, intramural sports, and other public clubs or community organizations. Its a large field, just built in 2013 with stadium seating on one side and here is a link if anyone wants to see it: https://teams.geegees.ca/inside-athletics/gee-geesfield Carleton U also has a mens Rugby team, and they play out of Twin Elm Rugby Park - yes Ottawa has a dedicated rugby park with fields, stands, junior and adult leagues: https://twinelm.ca/ if you look at all of what actually exists in Ottawa for general rugby infrastructure I think it becomes quite apparent why Perez feels Ottawa would be a good place to establish some roots. And I will say it again - Canadians are not nearly as hung up on the RL vs Union arguements as you are in the UK. It will matter not an iota to anyone, including players in the local leagues and uni teams that its RL. This is purely an English issue, which we Canucks don't care about in the slightest. Were I a Gee-Gee player and I was offered a tryout for the Ottawa RL team I would be there before you finished the sentence and I can't imagine a Canadian who would not. Any player here knows that they have to be flexible whether its an opportunity in 7s, 9s, 15s or RL. Its the opportunity to play that counts. This comes from football btw. If your playing North American football there is CFL and NFL. They have some similarities, and some differences. If you want to play you have to be prepared for either. Its the same for Lacrosse. We have field lacrosse and box lacrosse. Cross over here is just a fact of life. Consequentially all the arguments (and hatred) you die hards have are not even a glimmer of an issue here judging from my own past experiences . Some leagues might have a scattering of old transplanted english who still carry these issues close to heart, but i think now such are few and far between. I believe the intent is to start Ottawa in L1. I am ambivalent on this. I think it might be better if they commenced in Championship solely as I know some L1 clubs had a tough time with the Toronto trips given the part time players and scheduling. It does deprive them of the opportunity to travel over here - the feedback in the past was that for many of the L1 lads (and some away fans) is it was a once in a lifetime experience. I understand Parky replied - is it more drivel? Edit: What is this business about it taking 2 hrs to drive from Montreal? Only if you are slower then the 2nd coming. OMGLOL. maybe from the far side of Montreal. Or if you stopped to sightsee.

Its been some time since I have commented on the forum. I have lurked occasionally but my professional life has had me very busy of late. However, I felt this news exciting enough to log in and comment. Somewhere in 2017 in one of the many exasperating endless threads debating Toronto/expansion I discussed at length for the potential of a viable franchise in Ottawa. In my professional opinion as a businessman it is a slam dunk, and great news for RL. Here are some of my thoughts as to why: 1) Ottawa is a large city with an even larger catchment area - beyond the local CMA which exceeds 1 million people it is in fact within easy driving distance of both Montreal and Kingston, and many Torontonians who are Wolfpack fans will think nothing of the 500km trip to go see a game in Ottawa whether the Wolfpack or new Ottawa team. 2) I grew up in Ottawa and can attest to the fact it is a very sports oriented city. And Ottawans like rugged sports so I see rugby being an easy sell to the population. Ottawa is also generally familiar with Rugby - I played while in high school and I think it will actually have an easier intro into Ottawa then it did into Toronto. BTW Ottawa has a fair sized UK expat population. 3) Ottawa is well known to peer sporting cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Boston, New York and Philadelphia and having a team in Ottawa will allow for an easy sporting rivalry with any of these should they ever get involved in RL. A Toronto/Ottawa/NY basis for RL to gain a presence in NA is such a natural step. Should it come to fruition adding Boston and Philly would be an easy fit and result in very manageable travel times for both the local and visiting teams. 4) Ottawa is a very pleasant place to visit as a tourist. The venue is easy to get to. Its right beside the Rideau Canal which itself is a tourist attraction. Ottawa has many attractions which can easily keep any tourist busy for several days. And if coming from the UK it cuts about an hour off the flight time. Plus Montreal is an alternative for flights. 5) Landsdowne is a modern stadium in great shape. It beats the pants off almost all the other RL grounds. Its easy to get to as its just off the highway. Its served by public transit. One potential matter might be some scheduling conflicts with the CFL team that the backers also own, but I think that is very easily resolved. 6) the Ottawa partner is very successful. They have the deep pockets such that this venture is not even remotely a stretch for them. Other then the NHL hockey team they own every other major sporting entity in the city already, and have promotion & marketing down to a science. They know their market and how to work it. The entire cost associated with the RF team including travel etc is likely not even a secondary expense figure on their annual statements. If only we had more ownership groups in RL that were as capable and financially sound as this one. 7) There will be no lack of external sponsors - there are a lot large companies with a major presence in Ottawa. Ottawa is one of the high tech hubs in North America as well as a major legal hub due to government. I expect corporate boxes will sell out quickly. I can see Ottawa getting to 8-10k attendance very quickly and Lansdowne park lends itself much more to the type of atmosphere the WolfPack has created as its a much larger space that is traditionally set up for family type events. 7) I do believe having a 2nd Canadian team will imprint upon the psyche of young Canadians the potential of pursuing RL rugby as a sport. It will improve the potential for government funding. Even Ottawa weather is not what it used to be. In the 60's and 70's it was common for the winter temp to be below -20C from end of Nov to end of March continuously. This is a pipedream now. I suspect by mid april games could be played outdoors. I also think they could actually cover Lansdowne but I don't think they have enough reasons yet to justify the cost. And a few early season games in the RL is not enough on their own to justify that expense. With all due respect to Man of Kent and his observation of having visited some family and thinking Ottawa is dull, I beg to disagree. Ottawa would not get a million people attending its winter carnival, all freezing their asses off in Feb, were it a dull place. But I suppose in the end each place we visit is what we make of it. Some do better then others in this regards. I think away visitors will not have any difficulties finding many attractions to enjoy. Thus about Perez and the ownership group and the capability to make Ottawa a viable RL entity I have no qualms. On the usual matters debated ad nauseam on the forum such as the amount of talent available, developing Canadian junior talent, etc I am happy to let someone else discuss - I think they are non-issues. Edit: I think Rowley will be a contender to be coach.

Hi TMF: btw I always read your comments with interest on the rare occasions I have been able to visit the forum. I see your constant contributions down in the TWP threads and as a fellow fan thank you for your general positivity. My understanding is TWP is working to have RL Rugby officially recognized by the govt organizations that sanction amateur sports and direct the govt funding portion of sports that are sanctioned. Once that occurs then the high schools and universities can commence RL teams and insurers would be willing to recognize RL leagues more easily and underwrite them for insurance. The Canadian way typically (I am not saying written in stone but more the standard practice) is for our athletes to come up through the University system and then turn pro. Upon turning pro they sometimes go to a farm team (a semi pro team) and sometimes they go direct to the big leagues. As Loup said below Toronto FC has an academy. I had also forgotten that in Quebec their are a couple of colleges which are focused on hockey, there is a golf academy out in British Columbia, a college in Alberta which focuses on volleyball, and most likely a few other ones here and there - they are the exception. But most pro athletes here come through the university system - in fact in some NA pro sports its almost a prerequisite that one have graduated from university in order to be eligible to turn pro. Perhaps TWP may look at an Academy, I am not in a position to rule that out. But I suspect they more likely want to encourage the post secondary system to create an RL league, and perhaps one or two of the post secondary schools focus their sports program (with some extra funding of course...) on developing RL players. They do have a lot of irons in the fire. They are sponsoring even union events, virtually everything that touches on RL, Rugby in Jamaica (Canada has strong connections with the country), etc. I do not think anyone needs to fear they are just sitting on the sidelines with their thumbs in their butts. It will take a bit of time to turn more of the Canadian psyche to RL, but it is noticing it more every day and I think that will pay great dividends as TWP become more entrenched. Hi Loup. Thank you. I grew up in a non-soccer environment (the 60's and 70's in Eastern Ontario) and never took to the sport and so am completely oblivious to all things soccer to this day. I don't think I had even heard of it until post university. So I am completely out of touch although of course I know Toronto FC exists.

I believe TWP will be disappointed but not disheartened by the game. They did not play their best game and it had nothing to do with the opposing club IMHO. I think it was more the player mix - whom they played. I saw nothing in this game that changed my mind about Mccrone, Sims or Lussick that I posted earlier in this thread. McCrone lacks creative playmaking ability, I don't see what I need from Sims either as a Prop or as Captain, and Lussick is not living up to the hype as a beast who can forge out those extra yards most carries like FFMM who would drag 3 guys an extra 5 metres every carry and make them pay the price as well. I think Jack Bussey gets more out of a typical ball carry then either Sims or Lussick. Despite what I thought was maudlin play they still took it to HKR far more then the latter took it to them. But TWP passing, for the 2nd in almost as many games, was rather shoddy and they paid the price and it ended up being the diff maker. IT should be noted TWP played 2 men short of 17 for most of the game due to injury. Losing both halfbacks and already having lost 2 excellent wingers previous to this game (with both these out for the season) means that Matty Russell and Mason CB as well as Chase Stanley are really going to have to step up big in some of the next games. The team is heavy on props but light on fleet of foot creative players - we better hope Blake and Ryan can come back. This could be a factor in their placing in the top 3 vs having to fight it out in the MPG. I see some comments above about Rowley but in game, its not the coach, but the team capt and the asst coaches who make or break the game. The time for adjustments from Rowley is at half time, and I thought TWP started the 2nd half better then the first. IF the team really does possess fortitude, they will come out of this stronger. It certainly is an exciting Super 8. I feel for Halifax and hope they throw a surprise at someone but even if they get skunked in the 8's they should be proud. I was underwhelmed by the ref. Very underwhelmed. I saw some business on the forum about the lines on the field. I shook my head in amazement - an issue beyond trivial. If we are going to worry about something trivial it should be the fact that every time a game in the UK is broadcast we are treated to the verbal spectical of countless fans shouting " Your a f##$ing C#$t" and other such abusive language. The chances of hearing that in a Toronto crowd vary from Nil to None. Why are people in some other threads not thinking Toronto is not working to grow the game when they are in fact sponsoring stuff left, right and center over here? They will never do an Academy at least on this side of the pond as its not how sports are developed here. Right now they are working to grow the overall profile so that young people will take an interest. They have done a number of youth activities and I think are close to getting a small junior league up and running, on top of several more notable sponsorships at the adult level. More people then ever before are not going "who" when I name the team in a conversation. Sorry, I could only comment on one thread and then I have to boogie so I crammed it all in this one.

Been away for awhile due to work. My first comment in some time although I have checked the forum on my phone when I could. I am surprised no Olsi Krasniqi in the lineup as he is a quality player and I am not aware of any poor performances since he joined the team. He is a SL quality player so wonder why he is not in the lineup? I am a bit surprised Busey is not in the lineup since he is not easy to take down and tough defensively although i have been concerned about dirty play in the past, but even more surprised Matty Russel is not playing given his quality and past experience. I hope Darcy Lussick, Josh McCrone and Ashton Sims all step up their game - I have been underwhelmed by all of them to date. I want to see Lussick get FFMM yards per carry - that is why he was brought here and I don't think he is living up to it. I also thought Sims would be better ball in hand then he has - he gets hit and drops usually IMHO. I am clueless as to why we are playing Gary Wheeler. Chase Stanley has been IMHO one of the best acquisitions - his joy on the field is obvious, his level of play excellent both ways - he is definitely SL quality. Its the job of the captain to keep the team both motivated and inline on the field. If they start getting loose or uppity he is the one on the spot who has to put a stopper on it. If he can't then he does not deserve the job. IMHO the jury is still out on Sims - he talks a good talk and interview, but I want onfield leadership, not sound bites. Control the players and make them toe the line or kick their asses. Although TWP ended up getting hammered in the Cup by Warrington they were dominant for the first half until it fell apart, and I felt the ref contributed to that - part of me thought SL was attempting to channel a message in that game. Well that is past and done and not worth rehashing, but TWP if they come out on all cylinders firing can win this one big. Play smart and play tough and they have what it takes to win this one. I just don't know enough about Hull KR to say much more. I saw the game with Natalie in the booth along with Brian mid season and I thought they did a much better job then most of the games called since then even though Natalie was still learning the ropes. Brian does a good job of calling a spade IMHO and is quite funny as well. I could understand Natalie which was a pleasant change plus she came across well. Some of the combos since then have been "put one to sleep" dreadful - truly tedious and boring. There was a fellow last year, Canadian but lives in the UK (Dave?) who was great in the one game he called - he did some sideline work in other games - what happened to him? Put him with Natalie please as I can understand there is a perceived conflict of interest with Brian calling although Mr Noble is far too ethical IMHO to not call it as he sees it. I think TWP has enough to progress to SL although my knickers will not be in a knot if they don't but to me they should. It would be good for the sport if they do. The 8's are very exciting this year - great for the sport I think and it seems attendances are trending positive. I hope TO and London can surprise and make the leap as well - it would be a very good for RL if they do although London needs a much better field. A lot of money in NA is currently sitting on the sidelines while waiting to see what SL does - SL has really made a mess of things from a management perspective - I already know of some potential bids that have walked as they perceived them to be mickey mouse (I retain many of my high level finance connections from my corporate banking days although that is not my life anymore but word gets around). TWP is something being watched very closely. Not sure when I will get to return to comment further and sometimes the same old back and forth on the forum from the usual suspects that I did view is not very insprirational but I do love the game and retain hope....

Robert, there was a comment made in the Batley forum (Toronto thread) indicating Swinton had some problems and was quite unhappy about some matters, but no details as to what. To the point they were intending to complain to the RFL. Any ideas from the Swinton fans you met with?

What happened? I live in Toronto (although about 75 km from where the game was played). It looked like a good crowd on tv and I did not see any unhappy fans. Toronto got wiped off the map Friday evening by hurricane force winds. At the time the game was played there still might have been a quarter million people without power. I was surprised anything was even left standing although it was worst closer to Lake Ontario. Or was it player accomodation and other related matters? This was a one off use of this stadium while waiting for the City of Toronto to get its toothpick out of its ass and complete the renovations on the stadium TWP normally use. The new fieild should have been done last fall, not now. Typical municipal mismanagement. If there were Swinton issues I think most TWP fans would like to know what they were and would be sorry that any occurred.

Its one off. or so we are told. They travel back to your neck of the woods for Challenge Cup. Then they have Toulouse and Leigh respectively for the various tourneys, coming back to commence the balance of the home games starting July 9. It they are still on top at that point then I think they will coast to winning Championship. Its a smooth, easy drinking beer. Its not a heavy beer and I suppose some die hard beer conniseurs would probably turn their nose down on it. But its perfect for an afternoon outing like this. I used to live only a block from the Amsterdam brewery on King St. If they are not sponsoring TWP they should be. Or at least a player. The attendance given the location was amazing - I was shocked when I watched on TV. TWP pulled out all the strings to make it a success. I was surprised the grounds were still standing after the windstorm Sat evening. The fans appeared to be having a ball. I was insanely jealous as its pretty nigh impossible for me to attend most Saturday games.

Roch does not seem to have played a good game since their close one with TWP. It seems they shot their bolt int the TWP game, as they have not since played close to that calibre of rugby.

TWP posted the following on their website (abridged): Toronto Wolfpack beat Barrow Raiders in the 5th Round of the Challenge Cup in a hard fought battle at Craven Park. ... The game was a tense end-to-end battle with some incredible last gasp defending from both teams