Scubby

You could have said that about Dobson at the Raiders. He was going nowhere when he came over here and couldn't get near the starting line-up.

Bought one of these at Southampton Airport after not buying one for a while. I must admit that it felt a bit light on content and there were a number of things that just felt like a rehash of 'same old'.

Sponsor conversation with middle ranking SL club - scenario 1: Sponsor: We would like to give you £xxxxxxx to sponsor your shirt as we love the idea of supporting a club in SL. Club: Ah well, we will start off this season in SL but if we don't do very well, three-quarters of the way through we may drop out of SL into SL2. But don't worry, we will be back in SL again at the end of the season. Sponsor: Ok, rain check.

How can making another 50-80 sub-standard players full-time going to increase the intensity of SL? This will mean we have 400 full-time players across 1 and a half divisions - with only around 40% of them actually being elite standard. Crazy.

Well they should have played it at Quins RU then. It will be a neutral venue next year.

Jon it goes beyond that. The RFL took a really lazy option to do this. It is almost as if they couldn't be bothered to do anything and that they are too pre-occupied with the World Cup etc. Cantman will like this but there are three clear facts here. 1. London is dying on its a**e and needs a leg-up 2. Wigan is the most marketable name in Rugby League 3. Wigan have probably the biggest travelling fanbase in the country I have said this before on here. I can't imagine anyone who would have protested (not even Wigan) if the RFL said 'on this occasion we are going to set a precedent. We all know London needs a boost and to that end we will play this fixture at the Stoop.' The local media in London would have got behind it. The Broncos could have made the effort with its database. The Wigan fanbase would still have travelled for the game (at least 3-4k) and the Stoop would have had a 2k higher crowd than would have been at Leigh. Wigan would still have won and got to Wembley. But both clubs would have got something out of the occasion Plain short-sightedness. We can't see what is staring us in the face sometimes.

It is not the case. That was an extreme example. What is more likely to happen is that a club like Wakefield, Castleford or London will realise with 5 games of the 1x12 to go that they will drop into 2x8. Therefore, they will play kids and reserve graders for the last few fixtures giving their first choice players a break. They will then go into 2x8 and win their first 3/4 games - guaranteeing that they are back in SL next year by finishing in the top 4 of 8. Then, in effect, it is job done and the season is over. Will they be that bothered about winning 2x8 when they have guaranteed full funding back in SL with 4/5 weeks of the season still to go? Not sure. They will probably be busy signing players and planning for SL next year and how to spend their full funding. If people think this won't turn into the cynical example shown above then they are in for a shock. The fans will also soon twig and attendances could fall away for the last third of the season (against what this radical change is trying to be achieved).

Jon, you are getting too clever for your own good. This could send some of the posters on here over the edge. However, I think the plan is for the blocks of 8s to play each other once which will skew this somewhat. I genuinely think you could have a club like Castleford being 3x champions of Tier 2 but having only won around 30% of total games over that period. If that is the case will their fans even want to turn up to the finals - seeing as they have qualified back to SL after, say, 5 of the 7 extra 3x8s games.

I haven't taken that much notice of the re-structure TBH and have just let the debate fall out. But am I right that the following would happen: The team at the bottom of 12x1 could be W0 L23 by the time of the split and then by joined by a club W23 L0 at the top of 12x2 but they go to 0pts. The W0 L23 team can then go onto win the second tier competition by winning say 6 out of 9 games? This would be an overall W6 L26. The club in 12x2 (W23 L0) then wins 3 out of 7 but misses the play-offs (top four). Finishes with a season of W26 L4 and doesn't even get play-off football for its efforts at the end of the season? They part waves destined to meet again in a groundhog day scenario every season. Nice.

I think you missed a bit of tongue in cheek there. He was suggesting that if crowds and revenue are the 'be all' then London could play all their home SL fixtures at their opponents' grounds and, by default, get a bigger average than they get playing at the Stoop.

I think people will be really surprised by this tournament. If we start getting pre-sales towards 300k-400k I have no doubt the BBC's ears will ##### up and they will want some more of the action. The fact that places like Rochdale, Workington, Old Trafford, Avignon etc. could be sold out well in advance of the tournament really shows its potential. Why? Because of the spread of teams in games at those venues. It would not surprise me to see near full houses for all England group games too.

That's a bit different from playing it in London. For once, the RFL had a chance to help out a club that is dying on its a**e by giving them a high profile fixture on their doorstep. If the RFL had come out and said, we are going to play this game at the Stoop, the reasons are (a) it will increase the profile in London, b, it will recognise the good development work done in London and c) it will help out a club that is really suffering at the moment and give their long suffering fans a day in the sun. Who on earth would have denied them that? They would have got 7-8k, it would have been a good news story (maybe even in the local London press) and Wigan would still have got to Wembley. As a game we are so narrow minded in is untrue.

Just a thought, but I would imagine that the SF played at the Stoop would have got a bigger crowd than LSV? 8k in the capital for a London team playing to get to Wembley - now that would have been bonkers. Would have been a 50/50 crowd split and great atmosphere. LSV is in Wigan borough FFS and impossible to get to. Why would Wigan care as it was a SF against the bottom club in SL anyway. One day we will actually think of what's better for the game as a whole - maybe to try and increase our spread/profile/sponsorship potential (delete as appropriate) at a club that is struggling to survive.

Would it not just be sensible to itemise clubs as expansion (protected) and standard? 12 teams and 2 up 2 down. 12 teams must contain 3 expansion clubs each season (e.g. Toulouse, Catalans, London) If Toulouse or London or Catalans finish in bottom two then only one team will be relegated and one promoted. Do we really want to face the prospect of Toulouse, London and Catalans all potentially dropping down and folding? Imagine if Catalans have a stinker next year and finish in the bottom two. Don't say it can't happen because 3 years ago it did. Ten years of development going t**s up in six months.

Has anybody actually considered that the BBC has offered to broadcast a warm-up game if it was played locally to Media City? It is not a co-incidence that the Autumn final in 2012 was also at Salford. This is not a game the BBC has to cover. So let's baulk at the RFL getting the England side (and pundits) onto national television a week before the biggest competition here in over a decade. Two hours of free publicity for the World Cup! Rugby League fans would find an excuse to avoid attending anything.

Or half a million on the BBC. I bet if you showed a picture of Sam Tomkins in a Wigan shirt with a ball to 100 people in Norwich - hardly any would recognise him - fair enough. However, people would know it was a rugby player and quite a few would have heard of Wigan. It takes effort both ways and if sponsors have not got any faith in the brand outside of the M62 then we will always get offered peanuts.

Why wouldn't they if they had a breakdown of what percentage of Sky viewers do not live on the M62? It is holding us back I agree.

This is exactly right. Sponsors in the past have seemed almost apologetic when they get involved. What could Gillette or Tetleys or JJB have actually got back if they had put some effort in? Northern Ford (not just Ford but the M62 bit) is an example of the apathy. It is as if it is just too much effort to put the brand behind it as we will get it on the cheap anyway without lifting a finger.

Took the dog out for a walk around the coast and then returned home.

The final only got 356k last year on SS1. So don't know where the 5-600k comes from. However, based on this year's figures it will probably beat last year's figure even on SS2.

Didn't get a chance to see his celebration when he set-up Leroy Cudjoe's try at the HJ. What was it like?

Haven't Saints just won 8 on the bounce? Not too shabby IMO. They also won the last clash between the 2 clubs and beat Wire twice in the last few weeks. Why is it so obvious that this final be one-sided? They are low on star names but are playing above themselves.

Who will Stanley Gene play for then?

One year contract

Erm, No. Good luck in 2011.