Maximus Decimus

Nonsense. So if we did have P & R then do you think Widnes would have exactly the same squad as they do now? Do you think that the clubs would have voted to reduce the cap to 300k as well? Final question, how many players do you think Featherstone or Fax would retain if promoted to Super League, with potentially an extra

Enlighten you about what? The way to conduct yourself on a forum without looking like a childish brat?

This shows how little you know or understand. We actually mention that we run youth at all levels not just U15's and U16's. You're saying we have to stoop to a level to make us look good, which is nonsense. What about crowds, stadium, youth development doesn't make us look good in comparison to other clubs in this league? Winning the WCC adds nothing and people don't mention it very often despite you're mentioning that we do. When it is it's simply to say that Widnes are a famous name in RL and much more so than the other clubs we're up against it. How many times does it need to be pointed out that on the field is not what licensing is about? We don't have P & R anymore, get over it. In the words of the RFL, there is a minimum criteria and Widnes have met it. We are dealing with a salary cap of 300k in comparison to

Still not found the plot then Mick?

I'm not convinced that 10 metres is best for the game but I think you're guilty of what net geeks like to call a 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc' argument, assuming something is the cause of an event merely because it happened before that event. There are many other reasons for the lack of shocks, full time professionalism being probably the main one. This has fundamentally changed the way the game is played. The game used to be more off the cuff and obviously skillful to the untrained eye but somewhere along the line somebody has come along and realised that a structured game plan produces better results, everybody then changes suit. Later, somebody realised that wrestling techniques would improve defence and then everybody changes suit. The game constantly evolves and full-time professionalism linked to the mass availability of games on TV and the internet has seen this happen at a much quicker rate than before. You just need to look at how Football, Union, Tennis, Golf etc have all changed relatively rapidly also in the past 15 years.

Horrendous news. Sincere condolences to Paul and his family.

I thought that, as an away kit this proves it doesn't work. Although they are used differently nowadays, they are still meant to be used when a colour clash occurs. However their kit still results in just as bad a colour clash. If the RFL had any sense they would switch this right away, to Wire's genuine away kit.

Simplistic. Not to take anything away from Featherstone's achievement but if we didn't have licensing we probably wouldn't have a 300k cap and would see very different squads as clubs would prioritise differently.

The answer was in there, but I had to also explain how in reality 'potential' is a get out clause to make up for current failures.

They have a more realistic chance of presenting a successful SL club in my opinion. Salford have more potential but by that token Harlequins have the largest potential in the league. I've said previously, if Salford have the stadium then they should be given a license. My opinion is that if they don't have the stadium then they are the weakest.

No, my point was to show you up for making ridiculous statements like they could go up 50% next year.

Never realised this but winning the league should of course mean a box ticked. It's arguably the hardest of them all. Well done Fev, very well deserved victory.

Gotta feel for the man. They'd generally only put these incidents on report these days.

My head says that for the sake of RL a Wire win would be best. It would mean a probably sellout at Wembley between two massive clubs in comparison to a probable damp squib where Leeds would walk it. I just can't support the Wire though, come on Catalans!!!!

People often get criticised for suggesting that Salford's stadium might not happen. The fact is that the vast majority, myself included, have no idea how the process works. What we have seen and heard though are countless releases about the stadiums and numerous reassurances from fans about how certain their stadiums are to be built. However 10 years on in some instances the stadiums have still not started. Salford's stadium could be 100% nailed on certain to be built by 2012, I honestly don't know. When I've read the recent statements it seems that they are. However I've thought this before, at the last round of licensing for instance. All the arguments we're hearing now we heard in 2008 and the reality is they won't have delivered on those promises. Therefore if there are any delays meaning that the stadium will not be ready for the start of the 2012 stadium then they should definitely be dropped. Without it they are by far the weakest of the 3 main contenders to go down.

For those travelling by car it will be infinitely better. It is doable by public transport but not ideal, before I drove I had to go once and it was quite a trek. The key is of course going to be fans from Salford and Manchester. They are moving 3/4 miles down the road with will exclude the fans which would usually walk to games. The important thing to note is that a stadium alone is not the answer and Salford need to realise this. They have shown very little else to suggest that they could make the most of it. Wakefield, Cas, Wire and Hull all tried to make the most of their poor surroundings and managed to improve before they moved elsewhere or planned to. Salford haven't.

I have some experience of this and it's not particularly easy. The nearest train station is Urmston, probably a mile and a half from recollection. There are buses from the city centre, not as regular as you'd think and quite expensive. Hopefully they have the forsight to put extra buses on.

You spoke of 'the urchins in Weaste' without differentiating or suggesting that there are any other type of people in Weaste. Maybe you need to be a bit clearer in future. Unfortunately for you when you are dealing with facts, lies can be easily disproven. The Wire didn't get a crowd of 3,500 in their last 5 seasons at Wilderspool. Also if you look at their averages of the last few years you can see the upward trend culminating in their biggest SL average in the year before they moved to the HJ, 1998

I'll give you 100-1. He's not the type to change his mind no matter how wrong he is.

Well done Leeds. Deserved it overall I reckon.

As do you. Salford's ground is better than Wakefield's. Wakefield have grown their crowds by almost double, yours have declined if anything. What a nice way to describe many of your current fans. All the above is absolute nonsense and has nothing to do with whether Salford should be given a license or not. All clubs have issues and excuses and they have to live with them. Wakefield have theirs, Castleford too. You just have to live with it, I don't see how it makes any difference explaining the above. I certainly don't want Salford to stay where they are and I want them to have a new stadium. They could be good for the game but a new stadium does not mean they will definitely become an overnight success, you have to prove more than that. Wire and Hull had been growing their crowds for some time before they moved in to their new homes. I was present in a record breaking SL crowd for Wire a couple of seasons earlier. In comparison you have no momentum. Their final average was 7,031 and went up to just under 9,889 an increase of 41%. A similar increase for Salford would see them get around 6,300. Even the same meteoric rise that Hull had (67%) would only see you averaging 7,400. Just as a side point, one of the clubs you could take the place of, average more than that playing in their decrepit stadium. Not conclusive I accept but an indicator of how much else needs to be right rather than just a new stadium. This is just ludicrous. Salford are nowhere near an important enough club that they would be given special dispensation like this. Even with a new stadium they will do well to get a license in my opinion. I'll accept that if they can guarantee it will be finished for the start of the 2012 season then they will be given a license. If it is not then they should have to wait as they easily have the poorest bid of the other clubs in the mix. I don't believe for one second that Salford are pulling a fast one. I like John Wilkinson but the facts speak for themselves, the original date for completion of the stadium was 2003 for God's sake. You were largely given a license because of a new stadium that you will not have delivered in that licensing period. I've no doubt that you hope it will be completed in time for 2012 but if it is in anyway delayed, then you should be dropped until you have the new stadium in place. It's the fairest way. It will then guarantee you a place at the next round of licensing.

Wow, you've only come to this realisation now after what 3 seasons without P & R? Fev would probably not be promoted as they still had minimum criteria. I'll repeat what I said on the other thread, if you had a tiny bit of intelligence you'd see that Widnes' priorities would have been very different if we'd still have had promotion and relegation. You'd also see that doing well on with a salary cap of 300k indicates nothing as to how well you will do with a salary cap of