Exiled Wiganer

God rest his soul. Prayers and thoughts from the Exiled clan to his family. We lost one of our own today.

Really? How many final games can there be? League express will surely run out of Cunningham front pages by the time the curtain falls.

Leeds have been worthy champions for the last 3 years and will win things again in the near future. Without their best forward and best back they had too much to do. For Wigan, our defence was excellent and our attack was good when we had to be. It was good that it seemed to be played in the right spirit for once. It has been an excellent day for the Club.

I think we can get a decent 3/4 line from Hall, Gleeson, Briscoe plus one. We miss Bridge. Shenton showed he can play at this level, and Atkins offers something unexpected (as he doesn't seem to know what he's doing at times the opposition are bound to struggle). I am far from despondent. If Sam gets injured then we are in deep trouble though.

He could do a job there, but I think him on one side and Ellis on the other hitting hard in defence and attack will be vital, given the strengths in the centres that the Antipodeans have.

Such a shame that the RL (or was it Saints?) chose to play the game just before the Leeds match, otherwise there would have been far more Wiganers there. We are the Treble Winners - a unique achievement of League Champions, Reserve Champions and 9s Winners! The true grand slam.

I am assuming Eastmond won't go, and so Sam has to play in the halves. Happily, with Sinny and Lockers, we could play Myler as a support runner. He is very good if he has the right players around him, he just doesn't read play that well. I wouldn't lose any sleep over Widdop at 1. He doesn't play in first grade much, but he does have Slater in front of him. His knowledge of the Aussies standards will be invaluable. Hence... Widdop - Briscoe - Gleeson - Atkins - Hall - Sam - Myler Graham - Sinny - Burgess - Ellis - Westwood - Lockers ... Roby - Morley - Fielden - Joel (if he concentrates on rugby) I genuinely think that team has a chance. Westwood's emergence into a world class player is key in ensuring we have no weak links in the pack. Fielden has been terrific this year, and seems to be playing better in the play offs. Getting hit by Mason and hitting him back seems to have done wonders for him. Wellens, Flannagan, Fox, Shenton, Crabtree, Lynch and JJB would be my back up players.

I think KC is the finest 9 I have ever seen - indeed, I started a thread praising him when it looked like injury may prevent him from playing again a few weeks ago. I suppose I am simply suggesting that in measuring a player's achievements the international (and Aussie domestic) side is worth weighing up. It will be interesting to see whether Briers and Morley get the same accolade. As a game, we have been poor at giving our players the send off they deserve, and if it becomes a trend to highlight the achievements of our greats as they step down then I think that would be a wonderful. I cannot remember Hanley getting much fuss when he retired and he was a man picked in the Team of the Century for 4 different clubs, as well as performing brilliantly for GB. The finest player I have ever seen that's for sure. If one team loyalty is a defining feature then someone like Alker, another hooker, deserves massive credit. Insofar as positive coverage of an RL player extends beyond the game, that is a very good thing. I don't follow the Tiger Woods analogy as he clearly competes as an individual against all the other world greats most weeks. I suppose if he won everything else, but skipped the Majors that might be similar?

I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player? If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things. To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?

I thought that the Giants looked good. Brown had it right - you can't let Saints camp near your line and expect to win. The margin was harsh, but that's the nature of the modern game. Not a terrifying performance by the winners by any means, but Wigan have to overcome Leeds - and that will be some challenge - even to get the right to test out the Saints defence in the backs. I wonder how much the emotion has taken out of Saints? I recall Wigan really lifting themselves for the alst game at Central Park and then being flat afterwards, We'll know soon enough. Life after KC* will be interesting, given that Saints fans are already turning on Kyle and he was supposed to be the new messiah. No ground and no KC* should make next year a tough one for them.

After watching week after week the deification of KC* by Sky (and indeed seeing League Express's views on his importance - how can a little thing like being the best team over 7 months compare with scoring a try in a game your team had already won in the 3rd from final game at a ground), I wonder whether he is a British great as opposed to a Saints great. He is the finest 9 I have seen and a one man victory machine for his club. A couple of things give me pause for thought about his place in the history of the game... Does his international career match his ability? My recollection is that he had a couple of brilliant games for Wales and one good series for GB, which puts his career somewhere between Gilmour's and Briers, and a million miles behind Schofield and even Farrell (who dirched his club and country). Second, as I understand it he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge. While clearly he is blameless, don't those things have a long lasting (see Dwain Chambers) and substantial benefit? Without attaching any blame to him, why is this subject never touched on (and why do hookers seem to have a propensity for these things?)? If his career is compared to Morley or a true great like Hanley, then he falls a long way short to my mind, in that these were players who conquered the Aussies in their own back yard and had long and glorious international careers. Certainly, KC* deserves huge accolades, but I trust Morley will get this and far more when he hangs his boots up. A Local Hero but not a British great?

Didn't the WRU organise a press conference for him? Why would they do that?

That's one way of looking at it.

Bentham is now giving Saints more help than the local fire brigade.

No moaning about the referee now?

While Brett Hodgson is injured, Wire have signed a wonderful player there. If the oldsters can get through next year in decent shape and a young un or 2 emerges, 2011 could be a great year for them. Good game this.

It will be interesting to see how McIllorum goes tonight, and whether Bailey and co will view him as someone to have a go at. Everything I have seen and heard about him suggests that he is a scarily hard man, in a game of hard men. One thing I am hoping is that Joel has learnt his lessons from recent weeks. His childish petulance costs his team dearly and is giving him a very poor reputation. Having seen him play so well last week, striding through and tackling everything that moves, let's hope so. He seems particularly to get riled after head hunters attack Sam, as is almost certain to happen, so let's hope he can rein himself in (and it would be good if Lockers pulled him aside and calmed him down for once). A couple of slight differences on Wigan's side which could work well - as Deacon looks like he's fit, having him for the full game allows Sam to play 1 and join in when he feels like it, will improve our kicking game and generally bring a steadying influence. If Feca comes in for Tuson then our prop rotation becomes much stronger, and should give us at least parity up front. Leeds of course are missing 2 of their 4 front line props, so are lower in that department. For some reason, we seem more disciplined and effective playing away from home - maybe we simply relish building our victories on defence rather than setting the pace as is expected of the home team. Finally, the best thing for us maybe for Leeds to score first, so we don't get into our sitting on a lead mode, which seems to be something that we can't do well.

I am not sure the conditions will make much difference either way. I don't recall Wigan being hammered in the Cup. One fewer missed tackle and the job was a good un. As these teams put on classics on a regular basis I am hoping both for another beauty and a raprochement - Wigan have had to put up with Bluey, Hetherington and Peacock being very cross about us. Given all they have achieved it would be good to let victory or defeat pass without further digs. Madge is doing well in rising above it. Let's get back to 2 classy clubs playing classy and fair rugby.

This is a fascinating game. Saints are good, but nowhere near as good as they were in their pomp (their 2006 combo would destroy this year's vintage). Like Wigan in the early years of our decline, they have enough to win most games but lack the X factor to cow all comers. Which makes the Giants their worst nightmare. Had they had the courage to pick Wigan they would have been able to trade off emotion and local rivalry, the Giants are a settled team, with a strong sense of collective effort, and some world class talent in Hodgson, Fa'alogo and Brough on his day. Saints will either be relying on the biscuit bones twins or Smith to repeat his tricks without the benefit of surprise. Their pack is like Wire's in that their beef cake is susceptible to quick clever players hitting them up the middle. Saints deserve to be favourites, but I would back the Giants to win this given their settled side, relaxed state of mind and sprinkling of class. 2nd to a brilliant Wigan team and getting to the semis would still be.a great achievement for the Glass Blowers. Well done to them.

I am hoping that this will be another classic. The last game was a beauty. Leeds have so many players who have been there, done that, whereas Wigan can only muster Sam (who never plays badly), an NRL winner, a world cup winner and 3 grand final winners. I can see Wigan winning - they have so many more games than Leeds so far, through being a very efficient scoring machine, we were very good last week and Leeds are missing their 2 best players. Against that, Sinfield is world class and Leeds have talent throughout their 17. Should be in for another treat. Sadly the only certainty, is that win or lose Bluey will be utterly graceless. Wigan seem to bring the worst out of him. Can't wait.

A key question is who is going to come in from the obviously talented juniors? It would only take 2 or 3 to make a breakthrough to supplement an already formidable squad. I wonder about the balance in the pack - I think there are too many identikit big rough lads and not enough ball playing/agility there. Hence when a team gets its nippy steppers among the forwards they are really exposed. Obviously, they are struggling to work out a role for Myler, but to take the obvious Moran analogy further, when he was running off a Jimmy Dymock he was deadly, when he was asked to run the show he was a disaster. It won't happen, but if Wire had Cooke at 13 (and he could be persuaded to play to a plan), with Hodgson at 1 they could be unbeatable next year. How they replace the older core of the team will be an interesting challenge, though Smith must realise Briers and Morley aren't going to be better next year than they were this year. Plenty for Smith to cogitate on over the winter.

I may have missed this, but did McLennon apologise for accusing Wigan players of injuring McGuire (when he was of course injured fouling Carmont)? Did I miss that retraction. Clarke's views may be pie tinted and wrong - though I can see what he means, injuring yourself fouling someone feels different from injuring yourself playing fairly - he is speaking as a pundit. Nobody for a moment associates Schofield's comments with the Leeds club, so why should they Clarke's any more than using Hannibal's views as motivation to up their game against Wigan. Peacock's comments are of a different order - he is his country's most recent captain. Unless Piggy and Leuluai knew that mcGuire was injured, and neither of them is medically qualified, you could understand their reaction and suspicion that McGuire's injury was convenient. Given the previous of the Leeds team in "gamesmanship" and moaning and groaning theirs was not a disproportionate reaction. It is tragic he was injured, for him and his country, but the hysterical and self-righteous response from the Leeds club does them no creit. It is fine for nutters like 3owls to give us his "wisdom", but for McClennan and Peacock to say what they say is petulant and lacks any class. I suspect, like Saints bottling (in the true sense of the term) playing Wigan, fear is the primary factor at play.

I thought you had us down as talentless chokers? Surely you'd be able to rest players and still beat us?

Good point. For some reason Happy has played less international football than his talent merited. I still wouldn't pick Joel though in the centres. Bridge and Gleeson would be ideal (another good performance from Gleeson on Friday), failing that Gleeson and Atkins - Atkins' unpredictability could unsettle the Aussies.

Classy reaction pmj. I think I would echo your views if Wigan lose next week. Wire are getting better year on year, as Saints and Leeds decline each year, and there is no reason to think next year won't be the same. The most interesting phase for me will be when players from the junior teams at WIre, who have done so well this year, step up into the first team. While they had to acquire this initial Cup winning team, they have been sorting out their own development. If they can get the balance right and can bring on a couple of juniors each year then talk of a dynasty may not be far off. It is clearly hard to peak twice so quickly, but the Cup is going nowhere any time soon - and it was won beating a then decent Bulls, and the Giants away before ripping Leeds apart, so it was won the hard way.