Dave T

Spot on - this is the issue - too many people state their opinion as fact and refuse to budge, accept any points from anybody else and repeat time and time again. This forum very very rarely engages in proper debate.

So a 70% increase is not impressive?

as you know we dont use on field criteria to select our teams so tonights match isnt that relevant.

Was looking at some stats on rlstats the other day and I was actually pretty shocked looking at the figures during the 80's. I only started watching in around '86 and was young so they all seemed like big crowds to me, but the reality is I was usually in a ground holding 3-5k. If we get a crowd like that now in the Cup people are calling to scrap it.

Absolutely and I do enjoy readying the stats you put up, it does read as though the average gate at 2nd tier clubs has dropped since licensing was introduced, but still nowhere near as low as some would suggest.

The only challenge with those stats is not comparing like for like. Some of those Championship seasons have Hull and other well supported teams in. I know it's pretty difficult (or time-consuming) to compare like for like.

Have they tweaked some of the pricing? I paid a tenner to stand at Workington for the Scotland v Italy game yet the cheapest ticket is now £15 - not sure if I purchased mine on an offer though, nothing mentioned on my account.

And what has been decided so far is that we are heading down to 12 teams. That is positive IMHO. I'd really like to see quite strict P&R criteria with clubs knowing at the start of the season whether they would be eligible. If a poor club had a good run or got lucky in the playoffs they shouldn't be in. There does need to be criteria.

A few years back, Wire were poorly supported, yet now we are strong enough. A few years back, Souths were so weak, they were kicked out. Things change, cutting clubs off and telling them to just worry about youth development would appear harsh, especially when the standard at the bottom end of SL is so poor. Like I said earlier, if the SL clubs were all out of sight of the top Championship clubs, fair enough, but quite simply they aren't.

How do you get the numbers for standing tickets mate? Is it just based on numbers when you put it into your basket?

I think if we had 14 large teams in SL all getting well over 10k, then I think this is the way the game would have gone. Based on the fact that the tail of SL is so weak that the argument that Championship clubs could do better, it is difficult to tell people to know their place.

Well that is where this whole thing comes full circle. There is a belief within elements of the game (not just retards foaming at the mouth - it is arrogant for anybody to dismiss people with a certain view in this kind of way) that clubs are being weakened by the current structure. That is all that has been decided, whether people agree is up to them, but I personally believe that the game can absolutely strengthen with P&R featuring. There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

But we are being told that the only reason the NRL is big is due to a constant stream of justified and successful decisions by its leaders compared to the RFL. The fact is good and bad decisions are made every day of the week by the administrators depending on your individual view, the two markets (Oz and England) are massively different.

Do you think excluding South Sydney from the NRL was the right decision?

I'd disagree. I don;t mean Leigh being strong within the game, I mean them being financial stable enough to support development within their area. Having 30+ stronger clubs is better than 10 super strong clubs imho. It's not as if money is being taken from the top 10/12 - simply clubs that are not up to scratch being moved more into a level that suits them and that money being split downwards rather than up the line. The likes of Warrington, Wigan, Leeds can continue their growth plans, and can hopefully do it in a more competitive league with a better playoff structure.

Yes - I would agree - I don't think the RFL should do any work in areas where there are clubs, it should be a requirement as part of central funding. I'm not close to who has been chopped etc or what the RFL's development structure looks like, but ultimately we can;t spend money we don;t have.

sorry pal - all tickets now taken up, although it was much harder than I expected! Watch out for rain next Friday when I'm there!

I never mentioned them playing in SL.

Saturday viewing figures were always quite poor, and I suspect Thursday and Monday at least hold up well against them, although it is always difficult to measure as Summer sees a drop anyway. On sponsors - it would be much easier to get companies bringing staff along on a Thursday than Saturday. Next week our company has a load of tickets to the Golf Open in Muirfield. I got offered a ticket to any day, including the Sunday - rather than picking this slot, I went for a Friday, as that is work time rather than eating into too much of my home and family time. Saturday and Sunday is much tougher for companies to offload tickets to their staff. In RL this isn't the massive issue it is with other sports, as many of our sponsors are quite local, but we need to move away from this.

£11.1m over a 5 year period is £2.2m per year. 50 development staff at £30k costs per year is £1.5m - that is nothing. We can't spend money we don;t have. The Development Officers were in place previously when the numbers went down, so maybe it wasn;t the right thing to do, although I don't believe that. Maybe the onus needs to be on the clubs to support this more.

Maybe, but I'm not sure that's the only reason they are building. Warrington built in a P&R era, so have other clubs, although there were some rash signings certainly from Warrington in the year we nearly got relegated! I actually don;t think the threat of P&R makes clubs overspend, the aim for glory makes people overspend. Bradford wanted to continue to compete at the top despite their bank balance not allowing this, this was nothing to do with P&R.

Thursday is a pain, but it get's great viewing figures for Darts and Cricket. Monday is a Premier League slot, so again, certainly not a backwater slot like 3pm on a Tuesday. They may not suit some fans, but they are good slots.

What does your last line mean? What's the Sky backwater? How much is the sponsorship worth this year compared to when we had a title sponsor?

You could argue though that our clubs are the strongest development tools we have. Would it be better to have a strong Leigh, or them to be really weak and have a development officer in that area? I'm genuinely not sure, but I suspect having a strong club there is more important.

Are they? How much is Koukash worth - I have looked and can't find anything - I know Moran makes some of the Time Rich Lists with a fortune of over £200m, not sure about Koukash though. Having a rich backer is nothing like being a strong club though.