Dave T

To take this to its logical conclusion, I find it a shame that you think Football and Rugby Union are such superior sports to RL as shown by their greater crowds, TV figures and investors.

Of course that is the primary attraction, but there are a hundred other things that people could be doing instead, so it needs to be packaged and sold to customers. People wont just turn up. Your 2nd paragraph is contradictory. You say it isn't about a rule interpretation - but then explain exactly why it IS about a rule interpretation. Also - you do keep ignoring that I have acknowledged that we should always look to tweak and improve the game where relevant - what I am saying, is that it won't grow the game. What I am also saying is that this is a Sports Marketing thread and existing RL fans are positioning rule interpretations as a major issue and missing the point.

I'm very critical of Salford, I think it may have been earlier in this thread I was pretty blunt about them, but sometimes I do think we go a bit too far and forget a lot of the good work that goes on in RL and at the clubs.

Their offering is far better than when RL was previously on there. Obviously the RU content drags it down somewhat but its not a terrible channel. And in HD which was always an issue a few years back.

Posts like this should be trotted out when the forum comes round to its monthly cycle of questioning the value of existing teams like Salford.

And that brings us back to the whole point of the thread, and is possibly one of the perfect examples of why the sport is not more popular. This thread was about marketing the product, how we package it better, sell it better, engage with fans better. And it has turned into existing RL fans discussing their minor bugbears with the sport. And I think this is where the sport has gone wrong. We think the most important thing is the stuff that happens on the field, when it is pretty clearly established that it isn't the most important thing. The reason that in a town like Warrington 10k turn out on a Friday night to watch RL but in London it is 500 isn't due to knock ons, or blowing up for forward passes. On your first point, I don't disagree about repetion being boring, but it is a prominent feature of all sports. Football, Netball, boxing, basketball, cricket, RU, motor racing, it's all based around repetion - it is how that repetition is punctured with moments of skill, scores, controversy, and imho RL rates very highly versus most (all imo) other sports.

Yes. I don't fully agree with the BBC point though. We have decent coverage on the BBC. We have regular cup games and all England Test matches are shown on the BBC. We should try and stay away from the likes of Amazon (unless we create new content for big money). The Autumn internationals in RU are very easy to ignore nowadays and I think RU will regret their choice of Amazon for these. Post-covid if we can get cup games on BBC, then regular internationals every year, then 10 SL games on terrestrial TV, we will be doing very well. We maybe get around 80k people going to matches on a good week. On Sky we can get 400k to watch two games a week, and on BBC we get maybe 750k to 1m on Cup games and up to 2m for internationals. Chasing those high end figures is clearly the right thing to do. The way to do that isn't by focusing on knock on interpretations.

Again, that's fine and I address this in another postvthat we should be tweaking and improving things like this, but this isn't the reason the game isn't more popular, and changing this won't make it more popular. RL is widely accepted as a very entertaining sport - apart from a segment of RL fans.

The way we package the sport, market it, develop it, cover it and sell it. If you genuinely don't think RL is a good enough game to grow you are barking up the wrong tree. Sports being repetitive is not a negative.

IMO the sport is generally excellent and delivers. Particularly in the major games on the BBC and finals.

The fans are not like that because of the sport though. So no matter how many tweaks you make they will still act like that. Because getting a perfect game isn't an option.

People from outside the sport (I find) are usually pretty complimentary about the game, I think they struggle to create a real bond with it. I agree, a World Cup and internationals is a big way to do this. Even now it looks like the World Cup will be a huge success, and that isn't because they have tweaked the rules, it's because they have organised, packaged and marketed it well to all stakeholders so far. It's probably the best example that it isn't the actual sport on the grass that is most the important lever. Of course as RL fans we will want tweaks and adjustments and that's right they will happen, but I dont think messing with the sport grows the game. The 80m of RL is some way down the list imho. As I say, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and fix things we don't like with it, but that suits a different purpose.

I know I keep comparing to other sports, but all sports could be described in similarly negative terms if we wanted to. Pretty much all sports could be described as repetitive. I don't disagree with the point you make, but it won't make a major difference. For years, RL fans laughed at RU and the endless kicking for goals, as they packed out grounds and attracted massive TV deals and sponsors at international level.

That's OK though. He doesn't like RL, some don't, that's cool.

Not really. All sorts of things get tweaked all the time, in all sports. They just haven't done the specific thing you want them to. That's fine for you to be annoyed by that, but that doesn't mean its an issue for the game.

Whilst RL fans may be frustrated with things like nit-picking on knock-ons etc. we shouldn't go overboard and again, every single sport will have their own versions of these 'issues'. And for very many people, they wont be an issue in the slightest. But spending loads of time focusing on stuff like that won't increase crowds or viewers.

I don't think it was the most inspiring interview tbh. He was saying there are players already there. With respect there aren't. Rugby Union players are not RL players. He may feel the talent is there and they can create RL players, but there aren't the players there right now for an L1 team. He then says about players moving down to Cornwall, but will be offering part time jobs. I know that can work, and we see players going to France but that will be a challenge. If they house players etc. then I can see the appeal, but that will increase costs substantially. There was also the avoidance of naming the directors and management team. I know we know some details, but why didn't he answer that direct question? Is this another secretive Perez approach? His comparison of Newcastle to West Wales bring the same as Swinton to Cornwall was weird.

I think you are playing semantics on the last para. To keep it simple I always think of it being two parts - the product and how you sell it. People can see the marketing and not 'buy' and attend the product, and people can attend the product and not be marketed to. They are two separate elements. It is probably helpful to think of the product as every bit of service you put on.

I do feel it is in our major events where we need to be outstanding at this stuff. These are the events where we are going to get people buying into the sport and at the moment this is where I think we are getting it wrong, mainly through doing things on the cheap. In the main I don't think our regular club games at SL level are a major problem, particularly if you go to decent games at the likes of Warrington, Leeds, Hull, St Helens etc. Sure I think more could be done with fan zones etc. but the events generally hold up quite well to other major club events I have been to. The big cup and marquee events though are the ones that now miss the mark. Inconsistent approach to pre-match presentation and entertainment is frustrating, a real dumbing down of fanzones (outsourcing to Rugby AM crew) and absolutely doing things on the cheap have not impressed the people I have taken along to new games (including the Grand Final and England games). If I was now going to take someone new now, I'd choose a Wire home game versus a middle of the table team over one of the marquee events.

I agree. This constant focus on RU being boring and RL being great has led us into this 'Field of Dreams' kind of attitude that we don't really need to work hard to sell the game. What I would say is that the sport is not an issue. People who think faster play the balls will lead to bigger crowds are barking up the wrong tree - we have evidence that simple games do well, we also have evidence that complex games do well. We have evidence that quick games do well, we have evidence that games that take 5 days to finish are popular. There is no reason that people in Wigan prefer play the balls and people in Leicester prefer line-outs. RL is a perfectly reasonable sport that is in line with other sports that do well on TV and in grounds. Your last line is an important one - as long as we treat 'product' as the 80 minute thing that happens on the pitch we will not reach anywhere near potential.

That's weird. Sky have covered pretty much all sports. Do they find all sports funny?

Great stuff

Does anybody remember that bizarre spell when they often painted kits on nude women? Something for the young girls in the crowd to aspire to. It's crazy to think this was happening probably only 15 to 20 years ago.

Sometimes from reading in here you get the impression our clubs are all basket cases. And then you go to something tonight which was excellent, and is exactly the kind of community events the club should be staging.