Dave T

Quoting my reply again. This isn't the same thing at all. It is literally a completely different thing. Opening a new stand with the same prices as other stands is not controversial in the slightest. That's what they do at Old Trafford. And it's what they did with the £30. I'll say again - nobody has presented a single example of this strategy.

This is a niche chat in an RL forum. But still, nobody has presented a single example of any other event doing this. That is why its worthy of discussion imo. Its unusual tactics, and tbh, absolutely falls into mis-selling territory. Now it ain't a big issue here as there is no material harm to anyone. But irrespective of that technical discussion, the bigger thing at play here is that the tactic to push sales here is cheap tickets - which almost everyone who is discussing this has been critical of the RFL relying on over the years. The response to record breaking sales is to release cheap tickets. That doesn't stack up.

Indeed. There is nothing in the rulebook about attacker versus defender, this is always about intention. Its a poorly written rule.

Absolutely agree on the last paragraph. I've always had the approach that Ill pay what I can afford and care little if others are let in free or cheap. My use of the word dishonest is relevant, in that if they always planned this, which is what people are claiming, then they have been dishonest. I have more sympathy if its a change in pricing approach. I think it was always likely they would have to open the top tier as they always claimed they were looking to get a great crowd.

Thank you for making me look at an RU site, but this was in the ticket launch press release: "Once the pre-sale window ends at 9am on Monday, the general sale will begin at 10am, with ticket prices starting from €20."

Just to bring this back into proportion.... Your question really is: "But who are you annoyed on behalf of to the extent that you would discuss it on an RL chat forum?" Let's not make out that discussing something on TotalRL.com is any kind of over-reaction.

The issue is probably less prominent in a situation like this where it is such a major and extraordinary event, a lot of normal practices are not used. However we do see negative customer sentiment when prices are undercut, we don't need to pretend it isn't something that frustrates people. And let's be honest here, the practice is pretty dishonest. We announced prices for this event started at £30 and sold over 30k from then, and then 2 months later actually tell people that the prices start at £20, a 50% reduction. I can't think of another example of this, certainly not in major RL events. It isn't normal practice, and nobody has come up with an example of this. Tickets often become more expensive, not cheaper.

I think its an error too. They aren't good at attention to detail.

Yes, there are four corner blocks that are just coloured incorrectly, advertised as £45 when the tickets in them are £30.

If we had genuinely sold 60% of tickets available with 4 months to go, I'm not sure we would commit to releasing every ticket above the 50k mark at the cheapest price band or below. But that could easily be the cynic in me! I've had a quick look at a previous pricing map for an England FA game at Wembley, and noted that they used a huge section of the top tier as a family area with cheap tickets, and I think it could have been a nice way to launch these tickets - they do appear to have just sneaked out on sale to an extent.

I agree with all of that (apart form the first line obviously! ) The debating point is a bit of a technical one really - I agree, I don't think people will be peed off, but I do think it does reflect that sales may be slightly more sluggish than they are suggesting. It is around 6 weeks ago they said over 30k were sold, and they quoting that number. I think there is some creativity in that. We now have c58k on sale, and it doesn't look like over half of them are sold out (although some blocks do have healthy sales, behind the sticks particularly). However, I may be being overly cynical there, as your point that the RFL don't tend to open sections and incur costs unless they have to did make me think, so hopefully that is the case. Hopefully now the Cup Final is out of the way we get a boost. 63k hopefully enjoyed it and are tempted again, and 1.3m saw it on TV and fancy some of it.

Some people will always want the cheapest seats. They will have bought the £30 tickets based on them being the cheapest seats. Now 2 months later, they are told there are cheaper seats available - despite being told the prices for the Ashes start at £30. I take the point about it being technically different to offering a £50 ticket for £20 - but it still goes against the 'buy early' principle that they have done so well with this series. We really have reverted to type here. And I expect it is because we have huge blocks of expensive tickets unsold and have realised it's not gonna be a doddle to sell them.

In RL, we still claim that it is impossible to do things like this. Yet other sports just crack on and actually deliver stuff.

It is odd to see people who have been aggressively critical of the RFL selling tickets cheaper after launch and therefore disincentivising early purchases now defend them doing literally that.

I don't believe we need to overstate the branding issue between GB and Eng. We both agree that it was muddled and a joke, but the brand aint great anyway, and let's be honest, Bennett admitted that it was an England team when leaving out Regan Grace and using Blake Austin on the wing for example! But the RFL had a rep team playing games that catered for English RL fans - throughout history GB and England has been interchangeable (although I now think we need to be better than that!). But we don't look back at the 90's and claim it was a farce that GB didn't play in 1995 because we branded ourselves as England. And positioning it as a period of 2018-2020 as no England games is misleading. Eng/GB played every year (outside of Covid) just as we always have done.

What do you mean with your last line? In 2018 England played a home series against the Kiwis and 2020 we had a home Ashes scheduled. In 2019, the RFL sent a touring team to NZ, and PNG. It may have been a messy GB tour, but that period was far from the worst as an English RL international fan.

I'm very optimistic of a large crowd, and London always delivers the biggest crowds, but I'm not sure i agree with the approach of only using the good crowds as a comparison point. Get it right, we could break records, but it is also possible of 50k, which right now would probably be disappointing.

The list of last Eng v Aus games in London: 2016 - Olympic Stad - 35k 2011 - Wembley - 42k 2000 - Twickenham - 34k 1995 - Wembley (WC Final) - 66k 1995 - Wembley - 41k 1994 - Wembley - 57k 1992 - Wembley (WC Final) - 74k 1990 - Wembley 55k We can't rest on our laurels and just assume Wembley will do well. You could argue we did that the last couple of times we played there.

Yes, I agree with this. I'm not sure why they have actively decided to make communication worse this year.

I'd have loved them to have deemed it grounded too!!!

The core point in the discussion is one for the match thread, but on the point in question, I don't think controversy will harm the game at all. Obviously it is not something you want, but controversy like this doesn't switch people off in any material numbers, there is no evidence to suggest it does. People watching that game will have seen a blockbuster finish, with the heartbreak and jubilation that only sport can bring.

Yea, I think the decline in crowds is more in the 5-10k territory rather than 15-20k.

This is part of the challenge here. The indictations are that pricing at bargain basement prices isn't really needed. But it's back to where the RFL have gone.

It doesn't. But as per my original point, you dont make things cheaper if they are flying off the shelf. The RFL have constantly gone down the route of cheaper tickets to give things a boost. What this signposts is that all tickets in the upper tier will be cheap tickets (£20 and £30). Which is fine, but I genuinely believe the evidence suggests it's plan B.

I hope your assessment is correct. I disagree that £20 could be seen as anything other than cheap for an event like this. They are cheaper than a terrace ticket for Castleford v Huddersfield next month. If I had to guess, I expect they got a half decent amount of sales at the start, and then things have slowed down drastically. Over 30k sales should really see more sold out sections now, I expect that number is PR. Hopefully it isn't too far off the mark though. I wouldn't be surprised if they were trending 40-50k and they want to go bolder and get 70k.