Dave T

I'll start my post by clarifying that I think this PN Tournament has been very enjoyable and looks great on TV with pretty bustling crowds. If we look at the last 15 years' top crowds in the Southern Hemisphere internationals it looks like this (bold for this year's matches): 47,813 (Brisbane 2014 DH) 44,324 (Auckland 2010 DH) 40,033 (Brisbane 2017wc) 36,299 (Brisbane 2010) 33,196 (DH Brisbane) 32,890 (Newcastle 2011) 30,003 (Auckland 2017wc) 32,681 (Brisbane 2015) 30,000 (Sydney) 29,442 (Melbourne 2010) 26,301 (Gold Coast 2011) 25,628 (Canberra 2013) 25,549 (Sydney 2014) 25,257 (Auckland 2019) 25,183 (Wellington 2014) 24,041 (Hamilton 2017wc) 23,269 (Auckland 2023) 22,724 (Melbourne 2017wc) 22,363 (Auckland) 22,073 (Brisbane 2017wc) 21,127 (Sydney 2017wc) 20,681 (Wellington 2010) 20,585 (Melbourne 2014) 20,584 (Melbourne 2023) 18,894 (Melbourne 2010) 18,535 (Perth 2017) 18,456 (Wollongong 2014) 18,156 (Hamilton 2017wc) 18,144 (Townsville 2023) 17,857 (Auckland 2017wc) 17,005 (Christchurch) 16,912 (Whangarei 2014) 15,836 (Dunedin 2014) 14,800 (Port Moresby 2017wc) 14,800 (Port Moresby 2017wc) 14,800 (Port Moresby 2017wc) 14,744 (Perth 2017wc) 13,269 (Hamilton 2023)

Absolutely - it wasn't a criticism as such, as we've seen, when we started to go a little more regularly, we have clearly started to close the gap (although consistency is an issue, driven imo by a shallower talent pool).

Ok. I've changed my mind, you're in!

I agree. I think the issue of loop fixtures is overstated, but i don't see a credible alternative offered up. A 14 team SL fixes this but costs for two extra teams and potentially weakens the comp substantially. Just culling them has direct costs from crowds and ancillary sales, plus fewer tv games, less hospitality etc. The word scarcity is easy to quote, less easy to monetise (see the Samoa tests as an example). I'd argue that moving to 14 teams would be the most cost efficient way of removing them.

I thought the whole interview was laced with defensiveness. See also the comment about Karl Fitzpatrick's criticism. I thought Dwyer was spot on tbh in basically throwing it back to KF too. I'm OK with them being vocal though, as that's been one of the biggest criticisms.

The main positive for me on the TV deal is that we have done something different. There's plenty i don't like about the SS+ thing (and the BBC element actually) but not just doing the same thing and hoping for more money next time is something we should be doing imo.

I wouldn't leave you in charge of the marketing tbh England v France can be a decent event in itself. It doesn't have to be the biggest event in town, but both nations benefit kn the field and there's no reason that a well organised Test like this can't be getting five figure crowds regularly.

We've regularly got more than 5k and that's with weird, ad hoc planning. But, as GJ says, this isn't all.about commercials.

I was being moderate, a bit early to go too ranty

I think we should be playing France annually following the Grand Final. Both England and France struggled for fixtures this Autumn, just get that in the diary to kick off the international window, no matter what else is arranged. It shouldn't be negotiable.

That's all nice, but I am.gettibg fed up with the NRL trying to claim they are smashing everything and gaslighting us about history. In 2008 they got 2 x 34k crowds versus the Kiwis in Sydney. In 2002 they got 2 x 30k+ crowds when playing GB and NZ. They have also had 24k and 28k. These crowds were without being double headers.

I agree. For me, the scoring should be shifted towards so that you're always stretching teams. Particularly on metrics such as crowds, digital and finances.

I think our poor record away from home is definitely an issue. Both the Aussies and Kiwis come over here and win series, whereas we haven't won anything over there for decades. We have had some good series, iirc the last 4N there was fingertips from Hall away from beating the Aussies and a 2 at game versus the Kiwis (we chose not to take the draw), and a 6pt WC final, but we are too inconsistent. That GB tour was a car crash, and tbh I put it 100% at Wayne Bennet's door that one. He stayed with the RFL too long.

Yes. It's why I raised this as an issue 6 months ago when Jones first raised it. Agree completely.

This point really was quite clear that the conversation starts once the threshold of 12 grade A clubs has been broken. “Once we break the threshold of 12 then we can have conversations about a 14-team Super League competition. It's really frustrating that we just don't get things like this clarified by journalists within the sport. It was clear that this was a departure from the claims around grade A clubs. For me, a hugely fundamental point, much more so than most of the other things that we've focused on for the last year or two. If the actual main principle of this isn't working it's a big issue.

The biggest thing that's confused me.in all of this is that I thought Dwyer had moved to Australia. What kind of voodoo is being used to.conduct these interviews?

I think Lindsay had the mouth, not always able to back it up, but at least we knew what he stood for.and was driving forward. Lewis was imo the best leader we have had in my lifetime. A bit quieter, but very clear and with a vision.

Rhodri Jones pretty much said as much in April/May this year. Some people chose to ignore his comments and claim it was semantics when I pointed this exact point out.

The attitudes are a little weird, and I do think it makes them look a bit stupid. Super League players are more regularly going over there and doing well, England regularly win against NZ, Samoa, Tonga etc. We lost the 2017 World Cup final 6 nil in Brisbane, our clubs often do well in the WCC. Considering all the advantages that the Aussies have, it's really quite staggering that we are even close to them, and for them to act as ignorant as they do speaks volumes about their journos and pundits tbh.

Beat me to it by seconds. Exactly right.

This one made me smile. It's no more than PR this, of course the end of the negotiation should see a better deal than the start.

I think the problem is that we are just seeing more of the same, which is no surprise as we announced an inside man as MD. I'm not somebody who always believes we need to look externally, but Jones just seems so utterly impressive as a leader.

I think it was part of the restructure triggered by the IMG partnership, and IMG have a guy on the board, as well as the RFL board. So they have an involvement, not sure how the formal jv/partnership is structured though.

It just supports what I've said for a while. The gradings mean nowt. It's the top x ranked teams depending on how many we can afford to have in. Genuinely not sure why they've kept the A,B and C gradings once they got rid of the guaranteed place for A.

Yeah, that's fair enough - agreed, fans can only know what they have been told, and there is little reason to doubt the website that we post on, or a prominent SL owner. No fans have made this up.