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Nothing too wrong with a bit of Jake, Robin. Does that make you Shere Khan?

"If You Leave Me I'll Go Crazy" - James Brown "Coming Home" - Leon Bridges "Good Morning Heartache" - Sam Cooke "Fast Train" - Solomon Burke "You and Me" - Penny and The Quarters "No I'm Seeing" - Michael Kiwanuka "I Just Don't Know What to do With Myself" - Chris Farlowe "Every Little Bit hurts" - The Spencer Davis Group "I Wonder" - Chris Isaak And ......

Thanks for the heads up I'll give that a go! I usually like to have two or three books on the go at once and at the moment they are : The Sirens of Titan - Kurt Vonnegut, Writing Home - Alan Bennett and My Name is Red - Orhan Pamuk

Swing- chuffin-' ometres!

I expect references to the dark side and giving it some good natured stick for not being the real thing but not whole swathes of discussion. It struck me how little of our history actually has anything to do with the dirty word.

I love RL's history and heritage but why is there a discussion about a yawn team here? And especially one that has shown itself capable of doing the dirty if they're settling out of court as appears to be the case. I don't want to debate yoonion or any other sport on here. I certainly don't like them interfering with our TGG legacy, culture, tradition, custom and inheritance. To use a movie metaphor or simile here, in historical importance terms they wouldn't merit a bit part or walk on role in our history they're more of the appearance of Quentin Jerome Tarantino's thumb for film nerds. And what's more I don't give a monkeys about how hugely chippy this sounds, although you might not believe this I'm not having a go at ru just reminding people this is a TGG forum and who cares where some outpost kfc plays or doesn't play?

Which RL club is the oldest one?

Christmas day where, Futtocks? Great picture made it part of my gallery!

Very interesting and thank you for your explanation of both these issues. Do you think the willy wavers join in on purpose to make that happen? Of course the history of the game is cross code that's why I was concerned it might disappear. Maybe TGG should have two birthdays like the Queen?

Now padge I have to ask, after following the link, are you trying to get this thread moved to CCF? I know it's our history, I know Hadfield's a league journalist, I know it's a league thread,question post, but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have the criteria for being walked! Like Johnny Cash you "Walk the Line"

Castleford Halfacre made me think of how imperial measures might have formed our nicknames from the start. Bushels, Pecks and Chains come to mind. Sounds like a good game to me, anyone any ideas?

I don't know but what a great name and what a pity it's not still with us!

No that was Open Rugby and is very much missed!

"I do not "want it to end badly" where on earth do you get that rubbish from?" I am glad about that! Did you not say it will not end well at least once? "I am not the one going round insulting Marwan Koucash" - Again the misspelling I asked you about ! I don't think I accused you personally of attacking the good doctor and if I did that was completely unintentional and not the aim of what I wrote! I do find much criticism of SRD and MK to be questionable and I find it hard to understand what motivates people in this direction??

Parksider Again not meant as an attack on you just the general trend of pessimism that seems to linger around our sport generally.Good that you're looking forward to the season though! I don't have a clue how the Red Devils will go this year but I am intrigued by the response overall to their change of fortune and the reactions to the good Doctor. There are people who have said so many similar things on this very website yet insults are often the only outcome for him. I know you think it will all come crashing down but I get the feeling that you and you're not alone want it to end badly and that's what I can't fathom at all. I also reacted to your misspelling of his name was that deliberate?

I know the title of all this is "Never ending...." but judging by the latest comments and 225 pages and many thousands of points of view and replies don't you think it might just be time to call it a day and as far as the restructuring is concerned just "suck it and see"

Griff "This solution merely moves the dividing lines elsewhere. " I'm afraid that needs a bit more evidence to support it as a statement and there are a lot of statements like this being banded about. I just don't see everything in terms of who killed Kennedy? Who was on the grassy knoll? Who was the umbrella man? And why did LBJ jump to the floor before the shooting began? The RFL are not buffoons or villains even when they get it wrong! Marwan Koukash is not the saviour of the world but he does display some very interesting possibilities that have been missing for a long time in our sport! He also has not deserved the kind of reaction he has received at the hands of posters/fans and pundits. I don't want to spend all my time picking over little details in order to prove something or other that wasn't very interesting in the first place and secondly won't come anywhere near the truth because like Kennedy it's a riddle wrapped in an enigma shrouded in a mystery! And the new structure maybe turn out to be the answer! But the New Season's Here! 80 minutes TGG reaching the parts other sports can only dream of!

And this, as far as I am concerned is the problem with our sport "I await to see how the Marwan Koucash way goes next year at the Manchester City of Rugby League." Oh, dear! This is hardly the expression of someone excited about the sport, the new season or the interesting ingredients that the Red Devils will bring to the recipe no it's assuming it will all end in tears and it may do. But I just think that if the only thing that catches your attention is the crashes and disasters maybe you'd be better off watching a motor sport! I left the person's name off here cos this is not NOT a personal attack just dismay at the way people look at TGG! As far as the new structure is concerned maybe it's just what a few sports need very badly not only RL. The trouble is there is simply too much contradictory and confusing information and evidence added to personal agendas and bugbears that it is impossible either to see the truth or make any kind of informed picture of events and their implications. If you made a list of all the things the RFL are trying to fit together with this maybe we'd get a better idea about the reality of the situation. PS only 3 more sleeps!!!!!!!

I can neither argue with your figures or Martin's nor do I want to. I simply felt that the reason for the supposed favouritism was neither sinister nor bias but could in fact be a very sensible solution to a real danger when it comes to relegation. The nub of the problem for the RFL will always be how to find an answer to everyone's demands and complaints. This latest restructure does look like a real attempt to do just that, but the problem is in trying to please everyone hardly anyone ends up either happy or satisfied!

Keith T I can't help but wonder if you're looking at things from the wrong angle, "Unless there has been a change to the documents that was proposed I believe Martin Sadler has got the wrong figures for the two relegated teams If that is correct then the two relegated teams will have a £350k financial advantage over the top Championship club on £550k." I don't see this necessarily as an SL bias so much as recognition of just how bad a deal being relegated is, it's a complete disaster! Even if you're a huge champion of P and R or of Championship Clubs and their ambitions this has to be thought about carefully if we are not to lose clubs altogether when they go down.

"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity" Now if this were true it would represent the "World Turned Upside Down" The general consensus from left field has always been about how incompetent the RFL are, couldn't run the what's-it in the proverbial blah blah blah. But this would mean not only are they brilliant but deserve all our plaudits and applause for managing to marry all the contradictory factions and demands across RL and get them more or less on side with it all. Impressive to say the least!

The Parksider Does that mean that the half million wouldn't be given to a championship side going up? I don't doubt your word here I just don't know! I am glad there is a parachute payment because that has been my concern about relegation returning the devastating effects it has always had bordered on the criminal and that can't be up for debate even if you're promotion's biggest champion! I also put a post in about Burgess/ Farrell and the former swapping sports which seems to have been removed. I put it out there in response to an article on this website, are we not allowed to discuss encroachments by another sport here? If so it's not the site I thought it was! "4. Salford again. Nobody is financially sound simply from sugar daddies, that's where you have it wrong. Financial soundness comes from a big fan base and a great local junior scene/academy that produces players." This is absolutely correct and I think that's Marwan Koukash's vision that keeps being mentioned and also from the evidence of what he himself has said on the issue. Giant Strides Good piece of fun! but, "Other than that pretty similar," Really? But maybe for another thread!

"the problem is some people will like this system and when its changed will spend a lifetime arguing to bring it back!!" Very true the number of things we debate long after a sell by date(and that have become part of the mythology of league almost as much as the dip the toe in the water and run for your lives model) PSG, Nottingham Outlaws, Origin county, etc etc is too huge to consider fully! On the face of it though the new system does provide for Fev for example toppling someone higher up and having a phased in stepping up process. I think the point about the top clubs sorting themselves out is on the money but much of the calamities and vacillations that the above list if only part of have been down to the selfishness of clubs rather than the RFL. Mo was a prime example of this and without going into detail his tenure contained some glaringly partisan decisions. I do hope that the call for an independent C E O is not a step back in time!