bowes

I'm not a York supporter, though thought the way they were shafted when they'd made lots of improvements by having the rules changed on them was very damaging. The thing is every year we see clubs going into administration on promotion and it really isn't in Hunslet's best interests to be the next one, whicht eh 2-up-2-down will certainly cause. The Hunslet chairman as good as said if the crowds don't go up with the better team then that's it, whereas to me rather than one damaging season in the Championship it's better to work towards a more sustainable set up at the appropriate level for the support of clubs. French sides in the Championship wasn't the best idea, but if they're additional to English sides it's not so bad, South Wales can probably support a Championship side at some point, just not SL. The game is due a restructuring soon and which division the likes of Hunslet and York go in depends on how big the Championship is intended to be, but would expect the likes of Skolars, Gateshead, Doncaster etc to be in a National 1 with the best of the NCL.

Yes but 2-up-2-down is an unmitigated disaster. Should have changed to 1-up-1-down if anything. The playoff was often relatively close (Halifax-York and Batley-Dewsbury come to mind). It didn't change til the exact year Crusaders joined anyway

There would be if they could have time to strengthen as a club, the likes of York and Dewsbury aren't given enough time. The current set up is designed to destroy clubs as much as possible and P & R only went to 2 teams so Crusaders could get promoted more easily anyway (some would also say for Sheffield but they didn't change it back afterwards). A lot depends on how high you set the bar and what you do with the excluded clubs. Remember Widnes will be in SL by the time this is introduced and the other clubs won't be SL ready for a long time. Also you would probably see an Aude club (either together or an individual club from there) in as a 2nd French team, but maybe fewer teams and have it British only.

They're far too poorly supported to be financially viable at that level

1-up-1-down with strict minimum criteria to keep the likes of Hunslet and Blackpool out of the Championship might work, but I'd rather they go for 14-16 team franchised with a national league structure below

Yes but: 2004: Keighley straight down 2005: Barrow straight down 2006: York straight down 2009: Doncaster and Gateshead straight down 2010: at least one of Dewsbury or Keighley to go down, would be both if ti weren't for Whitehaven's meltdown The only teams so far to stay up on promotion areL 2007: Dewsbury and Sheffield (Dewsbury went down the year after anyway, survived because of Doncaster and Rochdale's financial troubles) 2008: Celtic Crusaders and Featherstone (big backer in the former, the latter were a relegated side not long before plus there was only one relegation spot) 2009: Barrow (big backer) Really not a good record as only Sheffield and Barrow have established themselves from the lower division ever, Crusaders were using it as a stop gap to a franchise and Featherstone were a team just regrouping for a couple of years in NL2

Batley were in the right place when the cut happened. The gap in salary cap between Championship and C1 and the ridiculous amount of relegation make it next to impossible to establish yourself without spending loads which unless you have a backer sends you into ruins. Most seasons Batley have stayed up by either the promoted sides or sides that are in financial ruins being behind them. York were run sensibly and got relegated because of it never to recover. Dewsbury could have managed it if it weren't for their financial problems in 2003. If Batley were in NL2 as was at the time of the cut they'd never have become an established Championship side

Oxford would be more logical due to Leneghan being a shareholder at the soccer club there. But Milton Keynes could work too, anywhere's got to be better than West London though

Do Workington have many clubs? Think there's just 1 (Seaton?) in the area but yes Maryport is the real RL playing area up there as well as Whitehaven

Guess 2012 is the logical date for this to start with the new SL franchise period starting then, the NCL maybe switching then and rules already being in place for P & R this year

Yeah around 1990 there were 5 Gloucestershire sides in the MASWARLA going head to head with RU plus Bath and on and off Plymouth (sometimes running their own mini league sometimes in the main league but the travel was bad), most of these had been in since the league was founded in the mid 80s. By about 1995 the MASWARLA had folded and the remnants split between the EMARLA and London ARL division 2 (South West) but don't think any from further west than Basingstoke. Cheltenham Warriors (now Gloucestershire) joined the RLC in 1998 and Bristol and Somerset joined in 2003, Plymouth in 2005 and they got a few teams playing friendlies in 2006 as preparation for the full division in 2007 which has grown since. Of course the big story was the early days with the attempted pro league about 100 years ago that never quite worked. Though the full details are on the Plymouth site

If a rich benefactor can be found to run a thriving London club then it would make more sense that they'd replace the basketcase that is Quins

Widnes replacing Salford would make more sense, unless Harlequins fold then they can replace them

The current set up makes it impossible for clubs like York or Dewsbury to ever establish themselves in the Championship, 2-up-2-down is a killer and set back all York's hard work trying to get there a few years ago. Plus the promoted sides nearly always go back down in financial ruins so C1 is hardly working under the current system. There has to be a path to the Championship for ambitious clubs, but only allowing 8 British clubs to remain at Championship level each year and making it impossible for promoted clubs to establish themselves in the Championship without either a rich backer like Barrow or an existing club hitting financial ruins. It's not worth holding clubs like Dewsbury or York back just for the alleged benefit of clubs with just a few hundred fans (this includes Hunslet who are top of the table with about 500 fans and will be the next promoted side to go into ruins) who would go into ruins on promotion to the Championship anyway, promotion did Gateshead and Doncaster no good

Not sure when GAA finishes but there's very little crossover with RU (both overlapping seasons and the historical ban on garrison sports) but playing at GAA grounds may be the biggest obstacle. Because most of Ireland is a separate country to the UK it makes no sense to force the same season as in the UK (in the same way forcing France to play summer and watch it collapse due to the ridiculous heat would be a terrible idea) and if 2 comps allows players to commit to RL then so be it. I don't believe it's anyone's plan in the RLI to expand the season, the reports I have from Ireland are that it's a case of get more RL teams on the map at any cost at the expense of any substance. I'd take 6 clubs playing 25 games and running juniors over 25 clubs playing 6 games anyday

Got to be better than just 4-6 game seasons forever, to me that is more backward than playing winter. To me sorting Scotland out is higher priority as they have juniors going to grow up into the current short setup

Maybe the best way forward for Ireland would be to have a summer league mainly aimed at off season RU players and a winter league mainly aimed at off season GAA players and then players/clubs who want to commit to RL can play both?

Tough call, but yes unless someone rich comes along prepared to back it there are better uses of money than Ireland as it stands. Scotland has junior setups as does the midlands so they would be much better candidates than Ireland for a side if money is there (which it isn't). Wales had some juniors before Crusaders like Scotland and midlands have. Giving it to try to get juniors started where there's been no interest so far (outside of one club as I say) is ultimately rewarding failure and RLI have to put more effort into serious RL development before it becomes worth spending hundreds of thousands of pounds better spent elsewhere. Welsh Conference good point, the split between Premier and Regional has been a step in the right direction with the Premier going up to 10 games, still not enough but I'd hope they look to expand the season when more teams step up (or before with 3rd fixtures). On the Northern Ireland Conference there's only 4 games plus playoffs, so if you were playing 25-30 RU games and about 5 RL games it's a pretty clear bias. Different to say playing 30 RU games and 16 RL games, though 30 RL games is much better

The average crowds at C1 I'm not sure would guess in the 600-800 range but Blackpool, Gateshead and Skolars get about 200-300 so you're looking at that at most. I can see the case for Scotland if the RFL had money because there are youngsters there, but there is not a single youngster playing RL in Ireland and thus there's no need for a path for them to aim for, there is also no drive to set youngsters up as RL in Ireland is just RU players playing 4-6 games to keep fit (this is NOT the same as say someone playing RL for South London Storm and RU for Streatham-Croydon and being a RL player and a RU player and taking both seriously)

Why not start a pro team then? The SW division has as many teams as the Scottish league and playes more games so should be as easy to start a pro team there than Scotland? In reality of course starting amateur clubs is what we should be doing like you say in the SW. It would be reckless to start a Scottish or Irish Championship 1 side now it would be much harder than rocket science to make it work

...per year

Yeah if it's that easy to do he should be able to start one himself

As things stand yes, was more saying if there's that much desperation to stay in the Championship would be likely. As it stands Batley and Dewsbury have more more claim to be in the Championship on their own right than either of the West Cumbrian clubs and certainly far more than Doncaster. I only meant they'd be logical if mergers ever take off, not now

Rumoured by the Bramley chairman in a debate on the future of the game in the community thread. I also heard it mentioned as a future aim in an RFL document (think about the time of the franchise applications) so it appears credible. Don't know the full details though apart from it stops short of full franchising

Irish RL (West Wicklow Vikings aside, who are struggling both for fixtures and consequently numbers) is just RU clubs having a way to keep players fit in summer and Scottish RL (Edinburgh Eagles/Napier University (more or less the same thing) aside) is the same. Scotland at least have juniors and could at a stretch be a long term aim, but Ireland doesn't have a single junior team in the whole country (there are efforts to set up West Wicklow Shamrocks but again one side doesn't work) There are so many places better to get a Championship 1 side than Scotland and Ireland and given that Skolars and Gateshead are really struggling despite infinitely better local setups, the problem is the players of the right standard aren't there and nor are the supporters. Championship 1 has too many weak struggling teams as is without artificially creating more where noone wants them. Far better to look at somewhere in the midlands than Scotland or Ireland and even then I'm not convinced we're ready You really need to get a grip on reality it really isn't simple and we really aren't wasting our time not blowing lots of money for nothing.