Dave T

I think we are getting at the same point. I dont necessarily agree witg your proposals, but i do the principles. I brought those stats in to show that the incentives for teams to go for all out aytack and be the best in that area is not there as the years best team or best attack usually fails to list the trophy. I do think playing at OT in Oct plays a big part in that.

I could be wrong, but I think one of the big challenges with expansive Rugby League in this country, is that the Grand Final is quite often a massively different game to other games that year, more so than any other games we see. I don't know whether it is the event, the small pitch, the often wet conditions, or whatever, but the below stats are true of the last 10 years: - Best attacking team in a season has won the LLS 80% of the time. - Best attacking team in a season has won the Grand Final only 20% of the time. - LLS winners won Grand Final only 40% of the time. This poses a couple of challenges to me - it shows that a) you do not have to have the best attack to win SL, and b ) you do not need to finish top of the league to win SL - and I think that encourages teams to worry less about having great attack or going all out for 1st place, but teams often seem happy to be able to grind out wins and be happy with a top 4 finish. Now the stats don't tell the whole story, it is just a snapshot, as Leeds have been a particularly good Grand Final team and they usually play a nice style of Rugby, but they have taken the title from 5th with mediocre attack twice in 10 years.

3 inter-division games instead of the 3 all SL games available. Maybe broadcasters are welcoming variety after all?

1 - You're welcome 2 - unfortunately the stats do not show minutes played, so hard to show this one, but I do think we see 25 minute stints for props as the norm, which I personally don't have an issue with. 3 - I'm not sure about that one tbh. You may be right, but I'm not convinced that NRL halves play more expansively due to a reduction in interchanges. In SL it is generally accepted that the game is a little more expansive and less structured than the NRL, but I don't think that means more quality at halves. But that is subjective. 4 - Who are you referring to here? If I look at the stats for the Wire pack v Salford game for example: Hill - 33 tackles, 17 carries Clarke - 39 tackles, 6 carries Cooper - 35 tackles, 10 carries Currie - 30 tackles, 14 carries Hughes - 33 tackles, 8 carries Westwood - 24 tackles, 15 carries Crosby - 26 tackles, 10 carries Akauola - 21 tackles - 9 carries Philbin - 25 tackles - 8 carries I think the above is a good example of sharing the workload and keeping the quality higher. I don't see too much of an issue with 10 minute wonders. 5 - I am not completely against a reduction in interchanges, I don't think it will drastically change anything though, but I am not a fan of 5m. I also like Currie playing out wide, and the above workload of 30 tackles and 14 carries shows that they are not stood out there trying to keep warm. 6 - I share some of your concerns around the nature of tactics employed, but i'm not sure allowing the defence to be closer to the attack is the best solution. I'm not sure what the answer is to conservative play, I sometimes think clubs lose the way in remembering they are in the entertainment business rather than grinding out wins - but that is not unique to RL, all sports can be played in negative ways. I'm not against any changes being tested as such, I'm just not sure your proposal is the best way to go. Definitely not the reduction to 5m, but I could live with a reduction in interchanges.

We can only comment on what we know seeing as there is no official comment. This is a discussion forum about things like this. The article highlights that it is likely to be staged in the North of England. People are discussing that. Not a big deal.

1 - Of course they are, and happy to discuss whether you agree with them or not. 2 - The point is still a bit silly, with respect. You only have 4 on the bench and 13 players (6 forwards), so even if you just rotated all props and 2nd rowers, with bench players, they would still play around half a game each. There is no need to use extreme examples to argue your case, as we have reality, and the reality is that we just don't have these 10 minute behemoths, so to try and fix an exaggerated issue is not a good starting point. 3 - I'm not convinced just giving halves tired defences to run at improves skillset. Surely if defences are better and fresher their skills have to be better? That you perceive they are not is probably more around coaching levels early on imho. 4 - I think this is the point that we disagree on. I'm not sure why you are against the big lads in the middle? I have no desire to either a) remove them from the game (by meaning they have to have smaller fitter lads) or b ) see these big lads running round far less effectively - I can't see an alternative to that tbh. 5 - Maybe, but many of the 2nd rowers are making 30-50 tackles and plenty carries a game already, so not sure they just have the extra bandwidth to cover for knackered props. 6 - Maybe, and I suppose we won't know until it was tested, but I think players are fitter than ever, and I'm not sure the return to 5m will encourage wider play, I think they will have less space and it would be easier for defences to snuff out attacks and dominate territory.

This game really should be outside of the North of England. I'd prefer France, a training camp based around that would be good, or alternatively London. I don't see the need to try and sell another 20k tickets for England in the North, they would take the easy option and just arrange the match with no promotion in Leigh/Salford/Wire and get 8-10k. Do it properly in France or London for me.

I do think you are being a little unfair here Harry. There are not many players who could be described as a '10 minute behemoth' in our game I don't think. By having the number of subs as they are it just allows the starting forwards to really go at it, knowing that at the 20 to 25 minute mark they will get a breather. If not, all that happens is you end up with slower play as they conserve energy. Later in the game the standards will drop as fatigue sets in. We need to be really careful about unintended consequences.

Yeah, the photo was clearly tongue in cheek, but a section of fans (Saints I believe) thought it was the funniest thing they had ever seen and that the lads on the photo were being serious. EDIT to add: I was not one of the lads on the photo!

Old joke from rlfans i think. Rubbish.

I think there are some tough to predict ties there. It's a good draw, and very much looking forward to the battle of the Wolfs.

The problem is that Premiership Rugby (RU) and Rugby Premier League (RL) is far more likely to be confusing than the current situation with the womens netball super league. You are also competing with a huge Premier League brand from football.

I think SL is a strong brand for us, and out of the major Rugby Comps I think we stand out there. Nobody confuses us with netball or womens football, so not an issue. Out of the major Rugby comps there is Premiership Rugby, Pro 14, Super Rugby, Rugby Championship, National Rugby League, Top 14 - im not sure what we could change to that would keep us standing out. Im not sure it is a problem that needs fixing, as some fans will just come up with other wordplay to diss it

I very much agree this is a huge factor.

I read MDs point differently. I thought he referred to the cup not being against the same teams as the league rather than a p&r point. In football the two domestic cups provide some variety and the Euro Cups add variety at the top.

Yup, its where i think a group stages challenge cup can work as you can seed it to have inter-division games. WCS games bring more variety, and if this allows a 23 game home and away regular season it should ensure more importance attached to each game. But the WCS is a tough one to resolve tbh. Particularly to get every SL team in like RU does

Absolutely agree. As we see, cups are not well supported any more anyway. I think the point about variety and creating excitement is one to be addressed though, and the RFL have tried, with things like Magic, but I hear too many people complain that the season is a long hard slog. That isn't something I necessarily agree with, as football and RU fans get fare more games to watch than us, but these comments and apathy can't just be dismissed all the time. If we look at football, they do have the league, league cup, fa cup plus Euro cups. Then all the internationals. In RU they have a league and two cup comps. In cricket they have various comps and formats. I think there is space to try a bit more variety, particularly if people are not responding to a 30 week SL season. I'd love an enhanced world comp, and I think making the Challenge Cup a combo of group stages and knockout could work, it could allow a reduction in league games if desired.

I don't agree with everything kiyan posts (or anybody else here to be fair) but I think he is getting a bit of a raw deal on this thread. I'd rather have a discussion with kiyan than one or two others on this thread.

I think there is something in this. I supported the move to 8 team playoffs around 10 years ago, but it was around then, and when licensing started that I noticed a real notice in people's attitudes. More and more people commented that they would pick and choose games, which I didnt get, but I must admit that with league position being quite irrelevant until very late in the year I dont take the losses too hard at the moment. I enjoy the current structure more even just for the variety the middle 8 brings, but I think maybe the top 8 bar was set too low. Maybe super 6 at the top if you were going to go down this route. Strangely, Leeds winning from 6th that year (?) I think had a negative effect. As for the actual game, I dont think it was better or worse at any time, rose tinted spectacles are being worn. When I started watching in the late 80s, watching Warrington at Wilderspool in front of 4k was often dire. I do think we have lost something with the removal of the cup comps now, back then you would also have County Cups, Regal Trophy, Premiership - it maybe felt more exciting.

You are correct. A grubber will be kicked into the ground rather than a drop kick which is generally when the ball is on its way back up.

Yes I know it is done on the cheap but I must admit to really enjoying last night's show. Wells, Clarke and Carney really went at it and didnt shy away from hot topics like drugs, coaching appointments and player development. Couldnt help feel that Clarke is maybe unpopular but really enjoyed the strong opinions instead of the standard PR approach. This was far better than last week with Barrie and Terry so hopefully we will stick with people who have strong views, but as build up for the first live match of the week I think it works. Same with Backchat which i watched this morning. Some good stuff knocking around at the moment.

This is a problem at the moment. Have reported it again.

Ignoring off field stuff, I would have Westerman at 13 at Wire any day of the week, and Id say he is good enough for most clubs in the league. If he has off field issues that is a separate issue.

It will all be very interesting to watch, but I do wonder how far away we will move from watching live sport on a big screen either in our home or the pub. I use Sky Go for the odd game, but i'm not sure how far I will go onto other platforms.

I knew I should have added a smiley It's been a major bugbear of mine that link on the Wire site. It shows that even our supposed stronger clubs are really amateur in quite a lot of the stuff we do.