Cowardly Fan

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  1. Cowardly Fan

    West Wales Raiders

    It's almost certainly done by a volunteer, so not the same as a job.
  2. I disagree 20% would be drastic given the history, that was the point. As I showed it has happened before on several occasions. Any average is better than comparing against 1 figure, you should never throw away data like that. I'm not sure argument about blue riband event is against mine. I agree that should be the aim, but this was a step towards that from recent history.
  3. It's a generally a bad idea to look at statistics in isolation. They are a large number of potential factors affecting the attendance that are out of the control of the RFL (as well as of course many that are in their control), the biggest one is the teams playing in the semi final, which I would argue was a disadvantage vs previous years. Looking at the attendances from previous years you see quite a lot of variability year on year. 2012: -16% 2013: -32% 2014: +30% 2015: 0% 2016: -16% 2017: +18% 2018: +3% You could look at those individually and declare a triumph 2 years and a disaster 3 times, but I think that would be a mistake. In 2013 London Broncos made the semi-final and that likely was a factor in the drop, I've not checked the others for potential reasons. It's better to look at the average, as that limits the impact of these elements. Scubby suggested we would have regressed to the average, which seems reasonable to me though we can't be sure. In fact we managed a small increase, while also reducing our costs, nothing revolutionary but a decent effort.
  4. Sorry I still don't see it. Scubby suggested we might have had a combined crowd of around 20k, a slight drop from last year but still average for last few years. Given Catalans had less fans I think that's reasonable, though we can debate it. However, there's no suggestion that would have been particularly bad. Based on the stats it would be average.
  5. Excellent, so it will be no trouble at all for you to find an example of someone saying just that. I've not seen one personally.
  6. Are any of those genuine quotes? It's impossible to say for sure what the crowd would have been if we'd have stayed with 2 venues but a decrease was definitely a possibility given Catalans inclusion. I will stick to my initial conclusion of it being a good step in right direction. More revenue, better TV, lower costs and anecdotally good fan feedback. Something to build from next year, hope they book a venue and start selling it sooner.
  7. Cowardly Fan

    The inevitable??

    Generally you don't need to do that in Europe. I only did a very brief search, but it's possible to get a return flight for £120 which isn't bad. I expect Catalans will help fans organise transport to other local airports as well, so shouldn't be much for transfer and if you looked around a bit I expect you could find a better deal.
  8. Cowardly Fan

    More RFL BS

    How much is an awful lot? I'd say that's a very sensible decision. Every football sellout you care to name has an good amount of complimentary tickets.
  9. Wow. Falsely claiming it's a sellout and stopping selling tickets (and earning more money) seems a bit excessive just to fool me. Is holding the game close to the teams a bad thing?
  10. Cowardly Fan

    More RFL BS

    I was dubious about it initially, but have to say now it's a moderate success. Small increase in attendance, but with a reduction in costs and likely to suit TV. It was on 3 months notice so ok to start small and then hopefully build it. I hope they get next year's booked somewhere bigger e.g. the Ettihad a year or so out.
  11. Cowardly Fan

    SL Club Attendances 2018

    Money and/or lack of cooperation in my opinion prevents us making a big improvement. I believe there's potential for some growth with minimal investment though and mentioned a couple of examples there. I didn't follow the discussion enough to comment. Do you mean everyone sees decreases midweek? That's generally true, though there are some things you can do to minimise the gap. I tend to think we put too much focus on the Thursday night games - I'd expect as a sport we play less than football clubs do midweek. Either way I think there are more important challenges.
  12. Cowardly Fan

    SL Club Attendances 2018

    Absolutely, it could be across so many areas and clubs would still have control. It's a shame even 100k could be enough to trial it for one area, the RFL could fund that and if successful that may get the clubs to put in some funds to expand it. One thing you will hear from football clubs is they see their competition as other sports and leisure. Rugby league clubs still seem to act as if they are competing with each other off the field.
  13. Cowardly Fan

    SL Club Attendances 2018

    They aren't incompetent, but RL clubs generally pay worse than average so they don't get the best people. The bigger problem in my opinion is resources - it's often 1 or 2 people working in marketing and they definitely can't get the technology they need. Its a difficult problem, which I've written about before on here. I had a couple of ex colleagues who went from football to rugby league clubs, they struggled to get things done mainly due to these issues. There's some fairness in this, we tend to like billboards and such because they're so visible. As someone who works in market research and attribution though I'm pretty certain Leeds have no idea of the impact of them on ticket sales, it's an incredibly difficult thing to estimate. There are many things, but just a couple of examples: Targeting local businesses for hospitality. You can buy business databases relatively cheap and has a good return in my experience. Market research is pretty much non existent, understand why people attend, don't renew season tickets, what we can improve in the grounds for starters. I've only seen Warrington and RFL surveys, both have been poor, in fact I've used the Warrington one as a bad example for training. I really think there'd be huge benefits if they could group together - Wigan or Leeds don't need a market researcher or designer full time, but a few hours a week. If they could pay to a central team they could have better people, systems and avoid expensive agency fees. I doubt it will happen any time soon though.
  14. I've finally got around to watching it, and didn't think Robert Elstone was quite as bad as advertised. The point on Toronto did seem more like a negotiating position, and I do think it is fair to say if we are going to invest strategically (e.g. double central grant as he suggested) then places like that wouldn't be the choice. That's not closing the door in their face though. He also sounded more informed on facilities, especially when compared to Lindsay who seemed to be arguing building a new stadium is just a matter of will. For me Elstone was weak in dismissing the occasion and focusing on knock ons, I thought Elstone was even a little rude to Sadler - he made a very reasonable point about NRL sometimes being too structured and Elstone just said "No" and turned away as if it was objectively wrong. Again though Lindsay was poor here, oddly saying they don't knock on in the NRL (which went unchallenged). Worst moment for Elstone though was definitely forgetting how many children he has! All in all not a great performance and could have been more positive, but not as bad as I feared when first reading this thread.
  15. I've not seen it, but the occasion quote sounds awful. I actually think being smaller can help you in this regard - look at the connections for Toronto fans with the players. I'd say football is an occasion for me or at least. With my championship club that's mainly created by the crowd themselves, and the atmosphere is 1/2 the fun for me. I've also been to a few hundred games for a non league team, and the things off the field are a bigger draw. The players are very approachable and it feels community based. Occasion is not just cheerleaders and business networking. It's creating an atmosphere, good food, getting close to the players and a few dozen other things.