Exiled Wiganer

Avoid injuries to key players. If Sam and Lockers had been out for a long time simultaneously we would have had a different season. While we were often without 7/8 players at a time they were often in positions in which we had cover. Contrast that to Saints and Leeds, where you can have everyone fit apart from 2 of your strike players and be far less potent.

I thought that went very well indeed. Wigan did everything they had to do - make Saints turn around, run at their outside men, keep our discipline. Not sure how it must have looked to a neutral, but our second try was a wonder to behold. To win the Quintuple - League Champions, GF Winners, 9s, Reserves and Locker Cup. A barely believable haul. For Saints, they did remarkably well to get there, with no halves and seemingly only 1 centre most of the year. A trick for them is to work out who to develop out of their many good youngsters. Plenty of hope for the future though plenty to ponder. A couple of things puzzle me - when the ball is stolen as a player crosses the line, why is that not a sin binning? Why did Saints move so many people around to positions they don't normally play?

I think Les Cats have made an inspired choice. Not only does he look as if he is an excellent coach (v similar reputation to MM), but he speaks French and knows the game and culture down there. He is tailor made. I like the signing of Blanch, as he strikes me as a consummate professional. I have a v soft spot for him after his fabulous Irish World Cup performances. Menzies is a brilliant signing as a player who can set an example off the pitch and lead the team around on it. He will enjoy being surrounded by higher quality players again. Very excited to see how far he can take a wooden spoon team after taking the NRL one to tomorrow's GF.

I don't see the point of playing a known quantity like Sykes at 6. Cooke would be a better choice - in the absence of one of the genuine contenders Mac should have gone for someone who may be an international further down the track from the Under 20s if need be. On wingers, Fox, Briscoe and Hall strike me as our best, with Hodgson, Goulding, Riley and Cudjoe having their merits. Riley is at 1 I assume because Mac sees no alternatives there, and I am hard pressed to dispute that (though don't Trinity have a highly rated 1?). Who knows, the experiment may be an unqualified success. I agree Ratchford should move. To his home town club.

Having left Exile far behind, am buzzing with excitement. Will be sititing by my 86 year old auntie who is the ideal companion for a tense game, drawing on 80 years of Wigan watching. If only Sullivan, Boston and Hanley were playing this evening... I am holding nerves at bay, and have tried to stick to my normal game day routine, doing some light singing to warm the voice up - trying out a There's only 1 Wigan Rugby/Sam will tear you apart medley. I think this has all the ingredients of a classic, as the teams are well matched. A few random reflections... Big game experience - should be pretty even, with Wigan maybe edging it - we have NRL, World Cup and Grand Final winners, and they have a fair few players for whom the experience is new, or who can vividly 3 GF defeats. Our Coach knows what is required and our young players are used to beating Saints year after year in the Reserves final, so can draw on that. Tactics - I am no expert, but Wigan have a better the better back 5, and Saints the better front row, so I expect more flair from us, as against close range barging from Saints. Wigan have to keep the penalty count down and spend as little time on our line as possible. I read somewhere that KC* is playing his last gane, though I might have wrong, Let him play the game trying to bring the ball out of defence. One thing which strikes me about Wigan's last 2 games is that they seem to have been pacing themselves much better. Rather than trying to blitz the opposition and trying (and failing) to defend a good but not massive lead, we have played well at the end of each half, even scoring the last try in both games, which is far more of a rarity than you would expect for the season's most successful team (where is Clarkey when you need for a random fact?). Atmosphere - in the flesh and in the virtual world, I see no reason why the minute's silence and game can't be enjoyed in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Now the teams are evenly matched for once, there isn't the need for bitterness/taunting that characterised the eras in which first Wigan and then Saints were massively dominant. That may be wishful thinking and we may get Choker threads aimed against us if we lose (I was particularly amused by the folk who accused Pat of choking - this a man who has scored the winning try in the NRL Grand Final...). International implications - I hope all the English players come through unscathed. You could make excellent cases for Wellens, Foster, Graham, Roby, Wilkin, Sam, Joel, Goulding, Gleeson, Fielden and Lockers being in the 4N squad. Having read Open Rugby's article on that Comp we will have an enormous task to trouble NZ or Oz so we need all our talent fit and well.

One thing that concerns me slightly about the week end is that both teams seem to be becoming more conservative as the season goes on, with Saints relying on scoring from within 10m of the line and Wigan having seemingly put flowing back moves more on hold in the last couple of weeks. I hope one team goes a couple of scores up so the other throws the ball around more. This could get tight and attritional if we're not careful. I hope I'm worrying unduly.

I wasn't meaning to suggest that Wigan would be undone by unfair refereeing, rather that either indiscipline from the likes of Joel and Coley or our inability to control the speed of the ptb could lead us to be defending our line against v big lads. Silverwood is a more than decent referee and we don't have the issues with him we seem to have with Bentham. I would if Bentham had his time again he might wish his record wasn't so bad for Wigan. I appreciate they go for the right man on the day, but if everything else was equal Cummings wouldn't be human if he gave the nod elsewhere than Bentham. I don't for a moment any ref ever does less than call the game as they see it, and have never blamed a ref for a Wigan defeat. I consider the disciplinary committee to be fair game mind, as they have the benefit of time for reflection. Anyway, I liked the look of Wigan for pretty much all of the game on Saturday - it was a very complete focussed performance. We look to be fit and firing and if our kicking game achieves parity we should be well placed. I think Sam at 1 works brilliantly when Deacs is 7, as he can do as he pleases. So excited about this game. Good luck to Saints, they will be worthy champions if they prevail, having a fair bit of adversity not so much in the number of injuries so much as their concentration in the halves. .

The refereeing will decide this. If Wigan are level on penalties they ought to win. If they are heavily penalised their line defence will be put under too much pressure by Saints' close in attack. I think Wigan's back 5 are very good indeed, and good enough to score mid 20s points. I am not sure this will be a classic to match Leeds' DW win, but I think the sides are much better matched than when Saints beat us in 2000 (?).

I read (in the Times I think) that there will be twice as many Wiganers there on Saturday. If so, that could be a bad thing in that we really want the game to feel like an away rather than a home match, to stand our best chance of victory.

That went better than I expected for Wigan. Do they decide these things on the day, as Wigan could have been hammered by Leeds on Saturday, in which case the case for a clean sweep would have been harder to make. I hadn't realised Sam was still young enough for Young Player. It hardly seems fair on all the other young lads.

For mine, it's a simple enough question. Do Leeds look stronger next year than this? I can't instantly see it myself, as a lot of their players are past their peak, and they are largely going in with the same squad. Of course it wouldn't take much to have them back at the top - renewed hunger, relief at not being shot at as champions every week, a couple fo emerging youngsters. In contrast I can clearly see Wigan and Wire, who beat them in their 2 biggest domestic games - getting stronger. As for Saints, it is hard to tell. KC is a force of nature for them rather than just a player and the players coming in aren't dominant characters. LMS and Perry strike me as more of the same with an already massive pack, and Shenton will not improve them given that Gidley is leaving. I happen to think Lomax is their best half and he could emerge as their version of Sam, which would make a massive difference, plus they will have the new coach effect which should bump them up.

Wigan also won the Locker Cup, the 9s and the Under 20s Championship. 4 major trophies down, 1 to go!

God rest his soul. Prayers and thoughts from the Exiled clan to his family. We lost one of our own today.

Really? How many final games can there be? League express will surely run out of Cunningham front pages by the time the curtain falls.

Leeds have been worthy champions for the last 3 years and will win things again in the near future. Without their best forward and best back they had too much to do. For Wigan, our defence was excellent and our attack was good when we had to be. It was good that it seemed to be played in the right spirit for once. It has been an excellent day for the Club.

I think we can get a decent 3/4 line from Hall, Gleeson, Briscoe plus one. We miss Bridge. Shenton showed he can play at this level, and Atkins offers something unexpected (as he doesn't seem to know what he's doing at times the opposition are bound to struggle). I am far from despondent. If Sam gets injured then we are in deep trouble though.

He could do a job there, but I think him on one side and Ellis on the other hitting hard in defence and attack will be vital, given the strengths in the centres that the Antipodeans have.

Such a shame that the RL (or was it Saints?) chose to play the game just before the Leeds match, otherwise there would have been far more Wiganers there. We are the Treble Winners - a unique achievement of League Champions, Reserve Champions and 9s Winners! The true grand slam.

I am assuming Eastmond won't go, and so Sam has to play in the halves. Happily, with Sinny and Lockers, we could play Myler as a support runner. He is very good if he has the right players around him, he just doesn't read play that well. I wouldn't lose any sleep over Widdop at 1. He doesn't play in first grade much, but he does have Slater in front of him. His knowledge of the Aussies standards will be invaluable. Hence... Widdop - Briscoe - Gleeson - Atkins - Hall - Sam - Myler Graham - Sinny - Burgess - Ellis - Westwood - Lockers ... Roby - Morley - Fielden - Joel (if he concentrates on rugby) I genuinely think that team has a chance. Westwood's emergence into a world class player is key in ensuring we have no weak links in the pack. Fielden has been terrific this year, and seems to be playing better in the play offs. Getting hit by Mason and hitting him back seems to have done wonders for him. Wellens, Flannagan, Fox, Shenton, Crabtree, Lynch and JJB would be my back up players.

I think KC is the finest 9 I have ever seen - indeed, I started a thread praising him when it looked like injury may prevent him from playing again a few weeks ago. I suppose I am simply suggesting that in measuring a player's achievements the international (and Aussie domestic) side is worth weighing up. It will be interesting to see whether Briers and Morley get the same accolade. As a game, we have been poor at giving our players the send off they deserve, and if it becomes a trend to highlight the achievements of our greats as they step down then I think that would be a wonderful. I cannot remember Hanley getting much fuss when he retired and he was a man picked in the Team of the Century for 4 different clubs, as well as performing brilliantly for GB. The finest player I have ever seen that's for sure. If one team loyalty is a defining feature then someone like Alker, another hooker, deserves massive credit. Insofar as positive coverage of an RL player extends beyond the game, that is a very good thing. I don't follow the Tiger Woods analogy as he clearly competes as an individual against all the other world greats most weeks. I suppose if he won everything else, but skipped the Majors that might be similar?

I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player? If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things. To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?

I thought that the Giants looked good. Brown had it right - you can't let Saints camp near your line and expect to win. The margin was harsh, but that's the nature of the modern game. Not a terrifying performance by the winners by any means, but Wigan have to overcome Leeds - and that will be some challenge - even to get the right to test out the Saints defence in the backs. I wonder how much the emotion has taken out of Saints? I recall Wigan really lifting themselves for the alst game at Central Park and then being flat afterwards, We'll know soon enough. Life after KC* will be interesting, given that Saints fans are already turning on Kyle and he was supposed to be the new messiah. No ground and no KC* should make next year a tough one for them.

After watching week after week the deification of KC* by Sky (and indeed seeing League Express's views on his importance - how can a little thing like being the best team over 7 months compare with scoring a try in a game your team had already won in the 3rd from final game at a ground), I wonder whether he is a British great as opposed to a Saints great. He is the finest 9 I have seen and a one man victory machine for his club. A couple of things give me pause for thought about his place in the history of the game... Does his international career match his ability? My recollection is that he had a couple of brilliant games for Wales and one good series for GB, which puts his career somewhere between Gilmour's and Briers, and a million miles behind Schofield and even Farrell (who dirched his club and country). Second, as I understand it he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge. While clearly he is blameless, don't those things have a long lasting (see Dwain Chambers) and substantial benefit? Without attaching any blame to him, why is this subject never touched on (and why do hookers seem to have a propensity for these things?)? If his career is compared to Morley or a true great like Hanley, then he falls a long way short to my mind, in that these were players who conquered the Aussies in their own back yard and had long and glorious international careers. Certainly, KC* deserves huge accolades, but I trust Morley will get this and far more when he hangs his boots up. A Local Hero but not a British great?

Didn't the WRU organise a press conference for him? Why would they do that?

That's one way of looking at it.