iffleyox

But it's the hope meets reality interface in all of this that is the issue isn't it? In reality there's about 3-4 clubs that could make a tilt at Super League - next season, if all this grading wasn't happening, that would be Fev*, Toulouse and Trin. Potentially Bradford. Anyone else would be 'doing a London' - and regardless of the sport, play offs that allow the team finishing fourth to go up are even more of a nonsense. Literally every other club is sitting there thinking 'well if we had the players and did it on the pitch then we should be allowed up' - lovely but the chances of that happening are minimal because almost inevitably, grading or no, if you've suddenly got the squad to allow you to do that then the bigger boys will come in and sign them. All this is doing really is shining a light on a closed door that was always closed, but the room was dark enough to not have to concentrate on the fact that it was closed. FWIW its exactly the same in the other code, and below the premiership the running costs are about the same. More RU clubs have folded having ill-advised tilts at the top, than have done because they're a historically big old club that has been 'frozen out' - giving up and walking away hasn't happened in that code, so why should it in RL? All this grading is doing really is showing clubs what they need to do to bring something to the top table, and frankly the clubs knocking on the door - even through straight promotion and with no grading - should be there or thereabouts anyway. If they're not then much more blame should be on the heads of those clubs than on IMG (especially in year 1). Meanwhile, in terms of freezing out, it only formalises a process that already exists - if you don't have the cash you won't compete - and cash should be spent on more than players. Trin seem to have found someone with deep pockets at exactly the right time, but if an equivalent can be found who wants to take Batley or Swinton (at random) on a journey, then literally all this is doing is providing a roadmap for something that will take more than buying the right squad of players and winning the Championship - the putative Swinton billionaire would still need to do that, but they'd have to spend money on the other boxes too and it would take more than one good season with a squad packed with retiring NRLers. That's not freezing anyone out - it's saying 'when your club is ready on and off the pitch, you can come up.' If people want to spend the money on jumping through the hoops then that's great for the club, and the wider sport. If they can't find the money to be a top flight club on and off the pitch, then that's a sign that they need to hope a bit more that one day they will... That's all. *with the obvious current caveat, but this time last week I'd have said Fev anyway

on those terms, 100% agree

My take is that it's harder to pull those two things apart. To be honest, anyone with half a brain should have a rough idea of good practice across most of the pillars, and yet many clubs are a long way off the pace (top to bottom being brutally honest). The history of RL to date in the last 20 years is that it being obvious hasn't actually led to clubs doing it - whether for the right or wrong reasons. The clubs without the money to do anything are one thing, but if *some* clubs start to spend/invest differently to chase the grading (the points become the outcome) then given where we are at the moment is it actually a bad thing? Let the minds that can be focused be focused*, because they haven't been so far, whether social media or anything else. *again, clubs with no money are simply not in a position to do much, but I'd argue that there's few clubs that could look at the entire list and find *nothing* they could afford to do....

This - the first year is designed to give clubs an idea of what they need to do. Some of the categories are imprecise, but even with loose/woolly finger in the air targets (which don't actually in themselves feel unreasonable, it's the workings that are more opaque) the fact that so many clubs just aren't doing the basics across pillars is unsurprising but pretty laughable when it's written down in black and white.

Keith Fielding Welsh? He's got some explaining to do re his 10 England RU caps and 7 England RL ones...

Exactly - L1 the year Oxford, GAG, Stags etc joined was the last gasp of strategy, before the whole thing was overcome by an outbreak of tactics...

....

Or, more importantly, can a 15 year development plan survive in rugby league…?

This. In the 'olden days' there were also tiny gates, because beyond the players and their families, very few other people wanted to watch it. The crowds of paying punters, certainly at Oxford, and multiple hundreds rather than one man and his dog, were for playing 'proper' northern sides. Pub conversations were much easier to pull in people to watch Oxford v Oldham, than trying to explain that Oxford vs South Wales Scorpions was not a clash of 'basically pub teams then?' (genuine quote). We wanted to watch competitive matches with 'real' clubs who had been doing this for a century - especially when we beat them. Even as a STH I had little interest when we were playing Scorpions or GAG (and I only lived over the road from the ground) - and there was a psychological feeling amongst some fans that playing the other expansion clubs was at best a chance to see how far you were progressing vs the other newcomers. As @Hemel Rugby Leaguesays, the League 1 we thought we were in was great, then (to the surprise presumably of no one involved in RL for longer than we had been - as fans I mean) the goalposts moved. My ideal would still be what L1 was that first season Oxford were in it - expansion clubs mixed with enough 'proper' northern sides to give the whole thing legitimacy and some sort of sense that it was a real league with some sort of continuity with the sport's past. I accept it would be different for the players, but the whole point about that wave of expansion clubs into League 1 was they were supposed to have spectators rather than just be giving player opportunities.

I'd argue there's a slight difference between 'rent' and 'rent with primacy of tenure' though - essentially if you control the gates and all the income generation then aside from not being able to borrow against the land, does it matter if the local council actually owns the site? The clubs in the worst position are those renting stadium access on 'pay per play'

In fairness, RU went pro in 1995 but built the English league pyramid overnight in 1987…

Ding ding ding ladies and gentlemen the man has cracked it. Every paragraph…

Which IMO is fast becoming the only halfway sane (I didn’t say everyone would like it) solution left.

What a great intro to RL for me that was - games slow enough and intimate enough to really learn what was going on, and a crash course in RFL ineptitude, short termism, self serving, and utter inability to make a plan and stick to it for more than a season. But like the Murphys….

Gone completely. Hemel already existed, Oxford were specifically a semi-pro side whose (sensible, experienced, wealthy) backers eventually threw the towel in because - AIUI amongst other things - the perpetually moving goal posts at the RFL made building a sustainable semi-pro club a nightmare.

TBC

See my avatar.

Do we have to rehearse again the incredible psychological barriers to league as a spectator sport for ‘expansion’ clubs? Basically, gates go up when you’re playing ‘proper’ teams from the north, and through the floor when you’re playing other expansion clubs. Putting the semi pro sides into a regional southern league is not shooting them in the foot, it’s shooting them in the head.

Thing is, without Skolars ‘south’ is Midlands and Cornwall….. so you either arbitrarily make some M62 teams South as well or, dress it up how you like, you basically shoot those two clubs - whether that’s dressed up as an expansion League including Hemel and some currently non-existent clubs, or not.

Oldham 10 - Hurricanes 18 FT

Kidderminster definitely were, and they weren’t alone.

Most at tier 6 are full time I think - obvious case would be the other year when Kidderminster (since promoted to tier 5) came within a whisker of knocking West Ham out of the FA cup. IIRC there are pushing 130 clubs worth of players earning their living from English football. The thinking in football is that there’s maybe a 2% difference between the players in the premier and the players 5-6 tiers lower. But it’s a 2% that’s worth millions.

Yes but you can go to Manchester or wherever anytime. Previous trips have included Cas, Wakey, Fev, Batley - the whole point is to go *there* rather than somewhere else and bolt on a quick trip in for the match. A night out in Leigh is part of it.

I’m only asking on here because I drew a blank on National Rail Enquiries…

The southern League enthusiasts tour rolls on (now in its 8th year) inspired by Derek’s Cup Final suit… Never been to Leigh before, how do you have a good weekend (around a match)? Proper tourists of cheap pubs and CIU clubs… also match day itself - what time to get there, where to stand (we’ll be Leigh fans for the day - not had a club since Oxford went under), etc please.