Dunbar

Nobody is ignoring Leuluai and O'Loughlin's skills and experience. And no-one is undermining their contribution. But to say they construct the Wigan game plan is wide of the mark. As Liam Farrell said after last years Grand Final in praise of Peet... “He makes tough calls when they’re needed, he puts the game plan into place". https://www.impartialreporter.com/sport/national/23856866.triumphant-wigan-boss-matt-peet-aims-emulate-coaching-heroes/ And again, to be absolutely clear, I am not saying O'Loughlin or Leuluai can't do this, they are clearly very good coaches and may be very good head coaches one day. I have just one point on this thread. Matt Peet is a top class Rugby League coach and he didn't need to be a top class player to be a top class coach. He doesn't need people with 'rugby brains' to support him as that implies he doesn't have a rugby brain.

But haven't you just said the same thing with the '2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them' part of your post. Again, you are suggesting that their playing experience adds something that Peet lacks and I am disagreeing with that. I am not trying to persuade you or Damien of anything by the way, everyone is more than welcome to their opinion.

I don't want to misrepresent anyone. I read your 'rugby brains' and 'been there done that' comments about O'Loughlin and Leuluai as referencing their professional playing careers (which Peet didn't have). Did you mean something else?

Indeed and José Mourinho as well. All three outstanding managers. Then you have likes of Frank Lampard who was an excellent player but clearly out of his depth at managing. There are great players who make great coaches. I am simply saying that they have both attributes... great player and great coach but they do not have one because of the other. Peet is a perfect example of a Rugby League coach who is tactically very good and he didn't need to play at the top level to become tactically astute.

Why are you arguing then. Look, if you think that having the experience of a top class playing career adds value to your coaching credentials that is fine. I just disagree.

I asked you what you meant when you said Leuluai and O'Loughlin were "the brains" and you said "rugby brains. They've been there and done that".

I am not arguing the importance of O'Loughlin and Leuluai but you are suggesting that there are some elements of Rugby League game play or tactics that they possess that Peet doesn't because he wasn't a top class player. And I disagree with that view.

This goes back to my previous point that people think to have rugby brains you need to have been a top class player.

That's social media for you. It's a minefield of nonsense.

Just wondering what you mean that 'they are the brains'?

Agreed.

I was going to post that at the time but didn't want the thread to get derailed. I thought that was poor as the words were changed to respect the indigenous people of Australia, a few of which were in the Penrith side.

I guess that's the difference of being sent up a try or not. The laws state that the referee should not disallow a try because he was not in a position to see the grounding of the ball. But equally, if he didn't think the ball got to the line then he shouldn't award a try. If a ref thinks it got there and wants to check he send it up as a try. If he thinks it didn't and wants to check then he sends it up no try. I thought that decision was handled OK.

Hull?

I'm a Wigan fan and I think it is OK to say the Wardle try was a poor decision while still saying the game was outstanding and Wigan deserved the win with a superbly gutsy performance. These things are not mutually exclusive.

I am assuming the 80k figure is the peak for main event. That meant the game peaked at 619k before Sky Sports Action is added. That a lot more than a normal Super League game isn't it?

I am starting to think I may support the NRL team in next year's Challenge as the lack of competition is not good for the game.

Exactly. You could do a find and replace for Saints last year and they would have faced the same challenges away from home as Penrith did this year.

I haven't given NRL Round 1 much thought with both the Super League and the WCC beforehand. Now, I expect to chat about the Vegas games.

If people don't want to add anything then they don't have to. But it is a significant Rugby League event and we are in the build up week, I think having a thread on it is fair enough.

Smithies was solid in the first quarter for the Raiders today, good in defence and effort plays (as always) and threw a few nice link passes. The commentary team were saying how pleased the Canberra coaches were with Smithies. Will be keen to see if he gets the 13 jumper for Round 1.

To be fair, we had a 20 page thread. But it got locked.

This is a very good and really important point. Last year the likes of Welsby and Lewis Dodd were among the best against Penrith, last night O'Neil and Hill were excellent. Against the 3 times NRL champions, these kids really stood up. It shows the young players we are developing in the UK game are very good and it bodes really well.

And there is a picture above your post that shows it did. That's why the ref sent it upstairs as a try, he came from behind the try line to get a view and saw the ball on the line and so sent it up as a try. The ball got there but it was either a triple movement or quadruple movement so should never have been given.

I thought the most important part of the game play last night was the number of times Penrith turned the ball over on the last tackle in Wigan's 20. Some of that was poor execution and some was clearly a policy of running the ball and turning the ball over in good field position if needed. Maybe Penrith felt that would help grind Wigan down but the fact Penrith didn't force a repeat set from Wigan all game meant that Wigan were able to go set for set, even if many of the Wigan sets were exit sets. Their backs kept holding their hands up for exit runs and Smith gained some distance with kicks. For all his talents, I felt that Cleary's short kicking game last night was poor and a few repeat sets may have seen Wigan crack. I'm glad he didn't and Wigan didn't.