John WP Fan

I think the forum organizer is just waiting for the RFL structure to be settled.

I don't think anyone has that fantasy. We know the calibre of talent will be quite modest at the start. I think Toronto will bring in at least a few thousand per game if they replicate the game day experience of the Wolfpack, and if the games are fairly even and fun, the crowds will return. The other cities may be uneven, depending on the existing RL fan base, and how well they do at marketing and on the field.

Saskatchewan. Yes, they plan to have teams in 5 provinces, as that's part of the requirement for the sport to be recognized by the federal government.

And where did they get the money to pay their staff, players and suppliers? central distribution government aid both of which were completely unavailable to the Wolfpack. Both teams shut down when they realized the rest of the season was unsustainable. It's also true there were some other serious issues with how the Wolfpack were being run, but it was the pandemic that tipped the scale.

And wind up with more than twice the death rate as Canada? No thanks. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/09/25/sweden-coronavirus-debate-lockdown-new-cases/

Please let me know when this thread returns to topics related to the Toronto Wolfpack. The NFL stuff does not interest me at all, and should have been split off into its own thread for those who wanted to discuss it.

Hey Harry, I did not mean any of that to be condescending or patronizing. I was simply thinking about how different the sporting cultures are between our two homes, and mainly thinking from the point of view of an investor, and what they would need to make their investment sound. Of course I found the 2 million pound games exciting/heart-breaking/anxious! I am not saying that P&R doesn't make things interesting! And yes, there are some meaningless games played in the leagues here, just as there are still with P&R, involving teams fighting for neither a playoff spot or to avoid the bottom. I didn't know the word "scarper". I think you were alluding to the phrase "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"? We like the heat, and we would like to help spruce up the kitchen.

Good question. In hockey, the major league teams each have a hierarchy of minor-league teams. Minor-league teams are either owned by their parent club, or they have an affiliation agreement. For example, the NHL's Toronto Maple Leafs own the Toronto Marlies (AHL, fully-professional, full-time, average salary close to $US 100,000/season) and the Newfoundland Growlers (ECHL, fully-professional, average salary around $US 50,000). There are a few semi-pro leagues below that. Players move up & down between the leagues based on the needs of the parent team. Locally-owned teams get salaries paid by the parent club and make their own money from ticket sales, food/drink and merchandise. Many AHL games are televised, so there is TV money as well. In baseball there is a similar hierarchy, though the major leagues have imposed a restructuring this year to reduce the number of teams and associated expenses, which will bankrupt some independent teams. The short answer is that in the major sports here, there is so much money generated at the top level (and even at the second tier) that a major league team could fund a hierarchy of development teams.

Relegating all 11 other teams would make for a rather uninteresting league! More seriously, yes. I’m suggesting they get the same deal as Catalans. P&R is completely foreign to us here, and I do not understand how a major sports team can expect to plan with that in the picture. I think it holds the sport back. Our major sports have tiers, from top-dollar professional to 2nd tier (still decently-paid full-ti e professional) to semi-pro. The teams don’t move between leagues, but leagues expand and accept new cities, where markets are large enough to support a team, and owners willing to pay a hefty entrance fee. i was hoping Super League was a major professional sport. I still hope it can become one, and I still think TWP can help that happen.

The new owner would be a fool to invest in saving the team without being assured his investment had a good chance of paying off long term. Here's what I think would make sense: Toronto Wolfpack readmitted to Super League, with protection from relegation for at least 3 years (the same deal that Catalan got when they were admitted) A points penalty might be applied, keeping them out of the playoffs (which would be a real stretch in any case), but not leading to relegation Full partners in SL, including voting rights and an equal share of central funding going forward, as well as RFL support on the visa issue to avoid a repeat of that problem A real commitment to developing young players (reserve team if that returns, and/or an academy, either in Canada or the UK or both) A commitment to quickly (within 2 weeks of approval to readmit the team to SL) make good on all debts to players, coaches and team employees A commitment to honour all season ticket purchases rolled over from 2020, and to quickly refund all 2020 single-ticket purchases A substantial re-admittance fee to be paid by the team to the RFL. The amount should be more than the amount the SL teams are losing from Sky in 2021, and should include funds for teams in the Championship and League 1. This can be viewed as either the penalty for late withdrawal this season or the cost of becoming a full member with protection from relegation, or both. A joint plan to market TV/streaming rights in Canada and the US starting in 2022, once Sportsnet's cheap rights deal from Sky has ended, to get real value from that. Viewers in Canada should be able to watch all Super League games (perhaps at a price), as we can now with watchnrl. It makes no sense to invest millions in a team if it's not going to be in SL for the foreseeable future, and it would be a mistake to rejoin SL as anything less than a full partner. But there also has to be something in it for SL and teams in the lower levels. If the new owner shows he is willing to invest substantially up front to help support existing teams at all levels, in return for being a full partner for years to come, would that be seen as reasonable?

Koffler has denied his involvement in a post in a TWP Facebook group.

i think Reaper answered this very well.

I agree. My rugby exposure started with union in school (I was a hooker), and I only learned about the existence of RL while travelling in Australia in 2014. Now I find League by far the better game. I have watched parts of a few Arrows games on TV, but I get bored watching the ruck push their way over the goal line. Good luck to the Arrows, but if the Wolfpack can't be rescued, I won't be going to Arrows games.

I wasn't suggesting the amount be anywhere near that. I'm saying keep the current limit or one a little higher (I think it should be higher so clubs can compete with the NRL for some players), but instead of a hard limit, impose a hefty tax on all wages paid beyond that limit, with the funds collected used to support the less-wealthy clubs. So the rich teams are allowed to spend more, but when they do they must also help the less-rich teams.

There is another option apart from either keeping, lowering or eliminating the cap. Major League Baseball (MLB) in North America uses a luxury tax system. There is a soft salary cap, and teams that spend beyond it must pay a fairly substantial tax on the excess amount. The funds collected through the luxury tax are split between the players benefits fund and teams that did not exceed the soft cap. in 2020 (before the pandemic hit), the luxury tax was set at (maybe sit down for this) $208,000,000 per team.