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Rugby League World Issue 400 - Out Now!

84 pages, 38 years of history from Open Rugby to the present day.
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Member Since 21 Nov 2011
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 10:56 PM

#2966530 27/07/14 - Bradford Bulls v Wigan Warriors KO 3pm

Posted by Saintslass on 27 July 2014 - 04:27 PM

I can't help but smile at this result.  It must be the Saints supporter in me.



#2964665 smoking at stadiums

Posted by Saintslass on 24 July 2014 - 11:44 AM

if it's more important to you to poison yourself and those around you and stink to high heaven than watch a rugby league game then that's up to you.


Alcohol, drugs, some food, botox ... geez, lots of things can be poisonous and you're quite right, human beings should be free to poison themselves if they choose to.  That's part of the freedom we should continue to have in this free country of ours.


As for causing people around to smell.  Well, if we're going to take that particularly dumb argument to its logical conclusion then we should be banning car exhausts (which of course also poison people), beer (nothing like coming home with clothes reeking of stale beer), fish (pooh!), cabbage (yuk!), all Chinese and Indian food, Widnes ...

#2964519 smoking at stadiums

Posted by Saintslass on 24 July 2014 - 07:49 AM


Like has already been mentioned, if you willingly attend a none smoking facility, you should be prepared to do without smoking for as long as you're on the premises of said facility.


If the facility allows smoking it isn't a non-smoking facility though is it?  If over 50% of the area is uncovered then smoking in that area is perfectly legal and so if the facility decide to allow smoking in that area then it's up to non-smokers to take it on the chin for 80 minutes.  Smoking isn't going to kill anyone over an 80 minute spell.  However, drink enough in 80 minutes and death is possible, and not necessarily to the drinker.  All it takes is one punch ...

#2963060 Will the Broncos be swallowed up by the Championship?

Posted by Saintslass on 21 July 2014 - 04:29 PM

Or, to put it another way, if a club's got a good owner who employs people who know what they're doing it'll be a success wherever they are. Seems odd that the point has to be made, really.

Totally right.  And whether a club has a good owner who knows what they're doing largely looks to be a matter of luck. 

#2962210 Bradford officially relegated

Posted by Saintslass on 20 July 2014 - 04:24 PM

I can't say I'm overly sentimental about Bradford being relegated.  They've been a basketcase of a club for the last two years and I'm a bit weary of the endless discussion about them to be honest.  I hope they manage to get their off field issues sorted while in the Championship and only make a return, should they return at all, when they are a well run club.


I feel sorry for the fans though as they've been through the mill over the last couple of years and it's remarkable so many of them have remained loyal, especially given the £150,000 that disappeared without explanation.

#2961889 19/07/14 - London Broncos v St Helens KO 3pm

Posted by Saintslass on 19 July 2014 - 09:25 PM

I haven't been to the Hive . When Broncos left Stoop my already challenged allegiance to them went west. Wheres London Broncos next home ground going to be? Hemel seems likely. Barnet wont put up with the current farce.

I went to London today.  I really liked The Hive.  It's a neat little stadium.  The stewards were friendly.  I felt really welcome as an away fan.  It was relaxed and the atmosphere was good.  Saints were given a bit of a scare in the second half and some of our fans were getting nervous when Broncos began to score but I think the Broncos lost a couple of players to injury late in the second half and ran out of subs.  In the heat today (seriously hot) I think London ran out of energy completely in the last 15, which is why Saints scored a flurry.


The one thing I admire about this Broncos team is that they never give up.  Even when they were on one leg at the end, they kept trying to make the tackle or chase back.  They didn't just stand around or anything. 

#2960465 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 17 July 2014 - 02:01 PM

Excellent paragraph and so so true... It is a huge problem and there are many people in the game who are happy to let that continue despite our best players leaving the UK for the NRL or another sport. I fundamentally disagree with people when they say RL's greatest asset is the heartlands. It isn't; it's the game's biggest handicap and will continue to suffocate the game until people realise that Wigan vs Saints may be sound great to people living in those small northern towns, but that the rest of huge population don't care and increasingly the games' stars are looking for bigger and better experiences.

Sky were guilty of furthering this narrative last night on Boots n All.  I nearly threw my flip flop at the TV when Eddie (jeez can't we retire him now?) said to that fulfilment of stereotype Baz and Tez that we were a northern working class sport.  There had been an item on Leigh Miners amateur club and during the following discussion there had been mention of an amateur club further north, I can't now remember which one.  I wanted to yell that there are loads of clubs south of the M62 you ignorant bumpkins but alas it would have been to no avail as my TV doesn't have ears.

#2959640 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 15 July 2014 - 07:27 PM

So what's the answer bob? Just put the games in big stadia until people start loving it? Build it and they will come?

Internationals.  We were starting to see growth from the 2011 Four Nations to the 2013 World Cup.  20,000 more attended the Wembley double header in 2013 than in 2011 for example.  However, there hasn't been a single statement from the RFL about internationals since the world cup and we're two thirds into the season.  Instead, we've had endless tripe about structures and marquee players and heaven knows what.  I feel like the sport is shrinking.

#2959638 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 15 July 2014 - 07:22 PM

we are doing something. 3 x 8's hardly suggests a safety first approach. It is a pretty big gamble if you ask me.

I'm not sure it is a gamble. Or rather, it may be a gamble from the POV of fans buying into it but it's actually a safety first approach.  It's an attempt to appease everyone.

#2959285 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 15 July 2014 - 08:14 AM

There is nothing wild about anything MK has spoken about. Wigan in the late 1980's laid the foundations for dominating the top tier for the best part of a decade largely because they reinvented what was possible in RL.


And here you have the main reason why so many RL chairmen, including McManus, are extremely cautious about abandoning the salary cap and re-introducing free spending. 

#2958938 Will the Broncos be swallowed up by the Championship?

Posted by Saintslass on 14 July 2014 - 02:15 PM

How likely is it that the Broncos will get promoted straight away? What will be the backbone of their squad when Dixon (highly likely) Moore, Caton-brown et al leave?

Have they got the structure in place to make a good fist of it in the Championship?

Scott Moore leaving would instantly make them a better team.  He's been diabolical for them.  He has the great record of being the player to miss most tackles in Superleague.


Dixon will be lucky to find another Superleague club and actually he's got a cheek even looking bearing in mind how the Broncos have stood by him through a year long injury.  I hope he goes nowhere as he doesn't yet deserve to.  He may be extremely rapid but his defence is generally poor and so needs to work hard on that.


It's inevitable that a relegation club loses many of its best players.  That invariably happens.  But a number of their current players were loanees - in fact Hull FC have immediately recalled their season long loanee Cunningham which I think is poor form given that he was on a season long loan (I notice that Leeds have honoured their season long loan deals and not recalled their players).  Another couple were from Australia and only signed for this year anyway, Cas have got one (Solomona) and we have got the other (Vea), both for next season. Matt Cook is a journeyman and although he's done his bit I am sure they can secure a better player for next season. 


Their only true loss so far has been Caton-Brown who is a real talent and is homegrown to the club.  Hopefully he will be the only talented player to leave but Grima has confirmed 23 of the 31 players in there first team squad will not be with the club next year (and that will include those mentioned above of course) and they have already recruited five more players currently based in Australia whose names they will release over the next few weeks.  Nick Slyney who has worked hard for them has re-signed, as have a couple of other young players, including Joe Keyes who scored a try against Warrington.  I'm not sure where Josh Drinkwater is up to.  I think he signed for two years but whether that will include playing the Championship I don't know.  However, he could do with staying as his kicking is good.  They have already announced a hooker coming over from Australia who played for Italy in the world cup.  They need more players with that kind of experience to shore them up.  Their lack of experience and their lack of big blokes up front has been their undoing (along with poor defence, but that goes without saying really).


There is no reason to think that the Broncos will be swallowed up by the Championship but of course they might be.  The new system gives them a chance to come straight back up but obviously they will have to firstly win enough games to finish in the top four and then enough games after the split to get promoted.  It's a tough ask but a lot will depend on their new recruits and how the latest squad settle in during the off season.  At least they will get an off season this year, unlike last year.

#2958677 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 13 July 2014 - 09:32 PM

Whatever the reasons but given the recent financial needs as you outline it would seem to me that if I was McManus I will have been doing and continue doing my best to ensure that other leading clubs are in a position to not leap ahead because of their current sounder finances.  Of course once the club was in a better financial position I may take on board some changes but at the moment it would be helpful to "my" individual club.   That is self interested decision but that is probably no different for other owners too.

I'm sorry.  I don't understand the point you are trying to make?  Are you suggesting that because the club is about to break even for probably the first time in its history, McManus is saying that he isn't interested in the marquee player idea?  If you read his reposte, which I have linked to on a previous page, McManus quite clearly stated that he agreed in the deferment of a vote on that particular issue until the new structure and Sky money has been given time to bed in as he anticipates no club should in the future need to go bust as the Sky money covers the current salary cap (which he also thinks should remain at the same level).


McManus has a good financial head on him and I would be inclined to defer to his judgement when it comes to thinking of the bigger picture financially.  Remember, he also backed the Stobart idea because he also believes that the sport needs to market itself better so he isn't against new ideas or new investment (after all, he did introduce Dr K to the sport originally via invitations to Saints) but he simply believes that the time isn't yet right to introduce marquee players. 

#2958590 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 13 July 2014 - 06:58 PM

Yet clearly Saints do and have spent big money, even under McManus, its crazy to say they havent. 


St Helens lost £2.4m in 2011, £1,3m in 2010, £940k in 2009 all while spending the full cap, They broke the SC in 2002(2 points deducted), 2005 (5k fine, suspended) 2006(£22k fine) and 2007(£8k fine). All under McManus

I assumed when you referred to McManus 'spending big money' that you meant he spent big on players, since that is what this thread is all about, not throwing money down the drain on keeping a delapidated stadium going, which is where so much of his and the club's directors' money went.  Bear in mind that the board throughout McManus' tenure has been made up of serious financiers.


Where did you get your information on the salary cap from?  All I can remember is the 2007 fine, which related to a payment made to James Graham for playing in an international.


2002 wouldn't have been under McManus, as the salary cap was retrospective then so if we were punished in 2002 then it would have been for 2001.  McManus took over Saints in 2002.  I would like to see a link for the other two fines as I don't remember either of those.  But either way, the fines are small beer when you look at the losses that the club had to sustain throughout the period at Knowsley Road.


The 2011 loss was all about the new stadium.  We were playing at Widnes for that year and had to pay rent for Halton Stadium that season on top of all the costs involved in selling Knowsley Road and building Langtree Park.  According to Mike Rush in an interview he gave with one of the rugby league monthlies this year, Saints are due to break even by the end of the year. 

#2958395 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by Saintslass on 13 July 2014 - 03:20 PM

my point was as i said. Saints spent big, made big losses, even broke the SC a few times to get where they are. It is hypocritical for McManus to demand other clubs dont build in the same way saints did. 

You are entirely incorrect.  Saints have never spent big under McManus.  Saints got into financial trouble before McManus came on the scene.  He rescued Saints from the verge of administration and the club were over £2 million in debt at the time.  McManus is financially astute with a number of very good connections in the banking world (some of whom are on the board at Saints).  He wouldn't have been able to secure a new stadium right in the midst of the banking collapse had that not been the case.  You need to read up on Saints' actual history before making it up to suit a point I still don't see you making.


As for the salary cap, I think we broke it once and received only a small fine because it was an administrative breach.  That concerned payment to I think it was James Graham for playing in an international.

#2955633 06/07/14 - Hull Kingston Rovers v St Helens KO 3pm

Posted by Saintslass on 06 July 2014 - 06:37 PM

I'm hoping for our first win in East Hull since 2007 but without Walsh our creativity will be pretty stunted.  Still, it worked ok against Wigan so hopefully it'll function decently against HKR.  We need to break our cycle of two wins and a hammering.  Hopefully Brown will leave his tinkerman tendencies at home and just slot Jones in for Wilkin, keeping Wilkin in the halves with Hohaia.

Oh well.  Maybe not then.