Jump to content

Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

Try our Fantastic 4-Issue Bundle Offer:
For just £14, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:

The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final drama from both hemispheres plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.

League Express


C H Calthrop

Member Since 27 Apr 2014
Online Last Active Today, 08:20 AM

#3016738 How many plays.

Posted by C H Calthrop on 20 October 2014 - 08:38 AM

Heard on sky once that there are only 6 or 7 plays that teams have. Is this the case and does a game come down to who can execute them the best

Depends how you want to define "plays". A team could kick on tackle 1,2,3,4,or 5. There are 5 plays right there.

#3015731 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 17 October 2014 - 08:34 PM

26 out of 79 sets are not completed could mean that just 5.5% of tackles result in a turnover. TT wasn't that far off when he stated that it could be as low as 5% Stating incomplete sets means nothing as it could mean that a turnover occurred on the first tackle or the fifth. 

Tackles are not the only cause of a turnover. Not in Union or in League. 

He referred to 5% of RL having "genuine" competition for possession, the incomplete sets indicate "successful" competition for possession. You can't claim RU has low turnovers but competition all the time and then deny the same for RL players who are equally as good at not letting the ball go.

It does however seem that the ball in RL changes hands through competition for possession  at least as much as RU shows but outside of kicking on the 6th.  

#3015279 Andy Wilson - writes something worth reading!

Posted by C H Calthrop on 16 October 2014 - 09:15 PM

so what about Wilson, or my coments (apologies they may be on the otgervtgread) about the amount of players stretchered off in neck braces recently.

Pretty much every time somebody makes a negative comment about the game, our reaction is to attack them, understandably after some of the coverage we have had over the years, but i prefer us to be a bit more secure and prepared to take criticism on board.

Whether we like it or not, outsiders views of our sport ARE important.

Neck braces are a reasonable precaution against further injury. 20 years ago they would have had the smelling salts and got up.


Juvenile comments like Freak Show are pure click bait. Wilson probably knew what would land his article front row and centre. 

I do not count such articles as criticism but money for old rope. Grief he even points out that the RFL must make sure the one  punch around the world is not emulated on junior pitches as if there was ever a policy of doing otherwise.

He refers to Sam Burgess, a mature, professional contact sportsman playing in the toughest league in the world as giving a masochist  display who is likely to put off parents of daughters who may want to play the game.  Burgess is striving for excellence in an event which may for him be once in a lifetime and he thinks the sensibilities of little girls are his to be concerned over. Stone me!


I went to the TT this year.  An event that has far more challenges than the RL GF. if we want to react to criticism we could take a leaf out of their book. The dignity and maturity over that event and its obvious risks and tragedies make the utter hysteria of this RL final look very shabby and certainly not something to take on board.

#3014860 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 16 October 2014 - 10:15 AM

Is the one-on-one law there to discourage more than one defender going into the tackle? If you allowed stripping of the ball with more than one tackler would we see more space elsewhere or would you see a maul type situation (which I know RL fans would not want)?

One on one  encourages a level of play that doesn't involve pulling a ball from the grasp of a player 2 or 3 on one.  The game doesn't want to descend into a one sided tug of war where the ball is live buried in a pile of bodies where the ref can't see what is going on and so blows his whistle to sort it out.

#3014724 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 15 October 2014 - 10:36 PM

Why would you expect a 50/50 outcome?

Isn't the lineout designed to promote competition and thrown down the middle of both teams?

#3014686 Andy Wilson - writes something worth reading!

Posted by C H Calthrop on 15 October 2014 - 09:18 PM

id like to know what we have done about it. How have we engaged with the media, how have we attracted businesses, how savvy have we been in selling tv rights that end up shoved away on Premier for example?

We absolutely have been treated badly, as long as we are doing everything we can to counter this we can hold our head high.
As a sport we are insular, as a fanbase we can be extremely unwelcoming.

Difficult to show insularity in a sport with so many players from 12,000 miles away and a French team in our domestic competition. And being the inventors of the Rugby World Cup. I must admit I have never seen RL as unwelcoming to anyone Jonathan Davies could attest to that sort of thing. 

#3014593 Andy Wilson - writes something worth reading!

Posted by C H Calthrop on 15 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

I think the point is around the perception of the sport overall.

This season has had three main discussion points in the mainstream:

1 - a player calling a ref an effing fag

2 - a load of hooligans invading the pitch after a cup semi

3 - this incident in the GF

Add in the Sam Burgess incident and the sport really doesnt look like one for families or one that entices parents to bring their kids along to give it a try.

Just watching Sky in recent weeks has seen players stretchered off after big hits, some cynical and late.

Even silly things like our adverts are loud and shouty and all about being tough (not entirely the RFL's doing).

I agree with Wilson that we could, and probably should reign it in a bit.

The point is to restate tired, one eyed perceptions of RL , those which are very well publicised by the games detractors and then using cherry picked examples illustrate how some elements can be made to live up to such perceptions. Why? Because it is acceptable, requires little effort in research, can be based on vague notions and will incur little meaningful condemnation or opposition to anyone involved. This Guardian article is a perfect example of the accusation providing the evidence for an opinion. 


The reason you highlight those incidents is not because RL fans are all consumed by them but rather they were tasty titilations for chattering media outlets to generate news over something they would usually ignore.  Without social media being used to create news there wouldn't have been 1% of the interest.


There isn't one shred of evidence that I have seen to show how "families" are turned from the game as spectators or players over these things. Particularly when "families" is really code for existing  RL fans who bring their kids along. RL as a full contact sport  is not a surprise to anyone coming through the turnstiles including youngsters.


Our adverts (what there are of them) are shouty, I have seen few sports with a soporific approach to advertising.


So much of the coverage of this event has been beneath tabloid but more toward a party political broadcast on behalf of those who wish RL was something else or just gone.

#3014420 Andy Wilson - writes something worth reading!

Posted by C H Calthrop on 15 October 2014 - 01:25 PM

I thought the piece was garbage. Defining an image of RL to the new RL readership of the Guardian who only discovered the game on Saturday. Lovely use of the phrase freak show in the title. An announcement of the obvious as if it is startling revelation, pure tripe of the filler article kind. 

#3012813 Ben Flower Sending Off / Reaction / Apology (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 13 October 2014 - 09:17 AM

The whole thing now has gone from a sporting incident well handled to effete over reaction fueled by social media drones and think of the children types further stoked by too many journalists finding something to do.

Out of interest I looked up the coverage of Kelvin Skerett being well and truly chinned by Dean Sampson, only in 94.




Back in the day when leading with the elbow was en vogue. Followed up by a piece about Barry Mac 94.




Both incidents in reality far worse than anything we have actually seen at the GF but with an absence of hysteria.

It's almost as if full grown men had watched full grown men play a game adjudicated by full grown men and would never indulge themselves with an over reaction bordering on something akin to witnessing an event they will need to have counselling for..

#3011864 11/10/14 - SLGF: St Helens v Wigan Warriors KO 6pm (TV)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 11 October 2014 - 07:58 PM

George Formby, The Verve, Uncle Joe, Limahl, :crazy: , Bradley Wiggins, your boys took a hell of a beating. :yahoo:  :danced:  :clapping: :dancer:   :dancing: :victory:  :kingchris:    

#3009678 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 08 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

Looks like Sam Burgess will be watched very closely by the NRL and every effort - including smashing the cap - will be made to get him back. My view is that he will start the 2016 at South Sydney after a few games off the bench for England in the RUWC. If Nov-Feb doesn't go well - he may even be back next season. I think his departure caught them cold and now they are realising what they are losing.



i wonder given the emotion he went through if his departure now has caught him cold?

#3009677 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 08 October 2014 - 10:51 AM

He said exactly what his paymasters wanted to hear. Wise move from Thomas.

Oh I don't think so. You can usually tell when someone is coached, they use terminology that is clearly made up of key points. "Challenge, wider international stage, subtly and nuance, complexity"  that sort of thing. GT's comments are far too informal for that.

#3009512 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 07 October 2014 - 11:42 PM

He had been taught the basics well and had a lot of natural ability. I forget how many trophies he won playing RU, you're good with facts and figures maybe you could remind me?

Exactly the same amount as all the home grown Welsh RU players who played for his Cardiff and Wales teams 

#3009237 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 07 October 2014 - 04:08 PM

 7 months for an elderly RU player to master the skills of playing league such that he is picked to play international games. 

Iestyn Harris, 11 days to be picked for the top flight in a country that claims RU as its own.

#3008326 Sam Burgess (merged threads)

Posted by C H Calthrop on 06 October 2014 - 09:51 AM

As these commentators say Sam will be missed as much for his off field contribution as on it.


And the picture of Sam at the end will be one of Australia's greatest sporting images



Not to be a big girls blouse about the thing but you just know he was remembering his dad and RL in Yorkshire as a youngster through those tears.