SSoutherner

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  1. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    And they are definately in the 25% at the leave end of the spectrum - the middle 50% tend to keep clear of online debate for fear of not being able to stand up for themselves against either extreme without ridicule ( i dont so much mean here which is quite civil - i mean in general internet land)
  2. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    I refer everyone back to my earlier comment - voters are on a spectrum those at either end are unlikely to be moved and also see all new evidence from their own viewpoint and thus see it as reinforcing their position. However votes are not won by the 25% at each end they are won by the 50% in the middle and I am pretty sure that if we all take a step back and think about it we can understand how this middle ground of swing voters are the ones being aimed at by politicians when they spout hyperbole and made up stats (for the avoidance of doubt i count "project fear" doom & gloom as hyperbole and £350m as made us stats)
  3. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    And I have no problem with that - it's is his personal value judgement and no one has a right to complain about it - however it must be obvious that the electorate of this country fall on a spectrum from those willing to live in a cave to avoid the EU to those willing to lose even the name England and be part of a nation called the EU. The issue is that 2 years ago going on the information available at the time to each individual voter the "average" on that spectrum fell on the leave side of 50% - since then more info has come to light, to those towards the ends of that spectrum that info has confirmed their position and so we both think that the people int he centre must see it the same way. Remainers seeing that once we hit next March we will definaitely have lost never to regain certain concessions we get from the EU (the Veto and keeping of the £ for instance) would like some kind of clarity as to whether the average has shifted (I would do it via a vote others dont want that), leavers feel that the extra info sionce the vote has proved them right and so what is the point of a vote etc as it would just confirm what they know and it would int he meantime muddy the waters and divert the attention away from making preperations (I would also hazard a guess that their are a few leading leavers who can see that once we lose those ocnsession it will shift the average thier way as well)
  4. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    Well steel would have been safer under the EU without our intervention - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tata-steel-uk-government-accused-of-failing-to-protect-british-workers-by-blocking-eu-plans-to-allow-a6962446.html And as for eliminating poverty here are a few EU originated current UK laws that the UK govt fought against - The Working Time regs, the Agency Workers Directive & TUPE regs - all of those are regulations aimed at reducing the ability of companies to exploit workers, you can argue whether they are effective at that or not but things like TUPE have been great for allowing many many low paid staff keep pay/benefits/redundancy rights that companies (and public bodies) have tried to wiggle out of through outsourcing and phoenixing arrangements
  5. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    i believe that is the " we will survive" narrative - preparing the left behind areas to be left behind even more
  6. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    This is not an Eu thing it is a politician thing - it can just as easily be said like this "The irony is that if the high and mighty establishment in London and MP's had actually bothered to listen to people's concerns regarding things like immigration over the last 2 decades then we may have not even ended up with Brexit in the first place. Instead everyone who didn't agree with them were just plebs who knew no better. Ultimately people have got so sick of this and just wanted change because this great London centric policy certainly wasnt working for them and the alternative in many parts couldn't be any worse." If you then think about this and realise the issue is as much about how a lot of the UK feels distanced from deciions made in London let alone Brussels you start to get towards the real reasons. Then you get to the question not even asked yet "Do you think the peripheries of the UK will get treated any better by Westminster alone than by a Westminster under EU Directives - now in my opinino the worst excesses of a right wing UK govt are held in check by the more than left of us on average EU and I WAS a classic pro commerce Tory voter in the past
  7. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    No like this extract which the industry body (and most experts) interpret to mean when you tell someone about a job and put them fwd you have to tell them all the info including identity (the a-e mentioned are basically company, duties, money, etc) - but some agencies wilfully interpret "offer" as being the act of being offered a job and thus they can send the cv off without any prior discussion - as "offer" is not defined in the legislation and it causes problems for compliant agencies almost daily when they send off a cv to be told the company have already received it and dont want to get into an argument as to who is representing the persona and so might be due a fee 21.—(1) Subject to paragraph (3), an agency or employment business shall ensure that at the same time as— b)it offers a work-seeker a position with a hirer— (i)it gives to the work-seeker (whether orally or otherwise) all information it has been provided with about the matters referred to in paragraphs (a) to (e) and, where applicable, paragraph (f) of regulation 18;
  8. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    no they are not BUT i work in an industry that was governed by a 1974 act that was written in legalese which was then superceeded by a 2000 legislation which was meant to be written in more plain English - there is far more wriggle room in the new act due to the use of phraseology which can be wilfully misenterpreted. There are some things for which legalese really is the best thing - however there ought to be a interpretive statement with it explainging what it means in English. There are for most acts a set of guidance documents which do exactly that - the issue is when the act is written like the guidance document. I also thank you for that link to the conservative home analysis - in my view it has 1 weakness which is this part "Whether or not an all-UK ‘Canada’ arrangement is possible seems to depend on whether the Government can negotiate to have the EU’s minimal-friction, tech-enabled, and intelligence-led customs arrangements applied to north-south trade from Northern Ireland instead of east-west." That starts form a position of assuming the gov's tech enabled solution is possible within an acceptable timescale - I am of the opinion (as someone who works with IT project managers daily) that thisis far form proven - before it can even be specced up we have to have decided on the customs framework (you cant write a system to emulate something you have yet to decide upon) and even after it is finalised I reckon you are looking at c5 years for a system working enough for a limited test install - trying to claim we dont need a backstop because we can produce a system to emulate the arrangements we have yet to even make is serious "cart before the horse" stuff - assuming we get an ongoing relationship agreeement sorted by the middle of 2020 you are therefroe looking at 2025 before a system could be starting to be installed - or basically a decade after the vote !!!!
  9. Someone mentioned Trinity Mirror earlier - i know then quite well as their office is close to mine - the entire of their Berks and Surrey operation is now about 12 people. The issue is people no longer buy small ads or pay for job ads which were far more of their income than the cover price
  10. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    I absolutely totally 100% agree with your analysis that this is unacceptable - but opposite to you I think this is a result of wanting our cake and eating it not EU punishment. I have said on many occasions the best deal is stay in and otherwise the only thing we could do would be ahard Mnford and accept that inthe short to medium term the country will be a disaster zone as we try and transition to this new reality and watch mass manufacturing and non niche agriculture wither away against foreign competitiopn from low labour cost areas. There is no appetite in this country for that (especially not in a lot of the Brexit voting areas like the NE) a lot of people voted Brexit wanint a protectionist Brexit. So once you accept that there is no mandate for that version of Brexit you are left with remain as their is NO half way house between the 2 which is not so full ofinternal inconsistencies that it leaves us with this - pretty much what we had before but with far less say and influence - "Taking back control" will have led to "no control", We would have more control over our rules and laws in a fully federal European superstate than in what we are going to have - it is Norway --
  11. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    yes and they said the leaflet was scaremongering it wouldnt be that bad
  12. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    maybe it is a female thing - she reminds me of my mum when she had told us to do something as kids, we could tie her up in logical knots but she would resort to "I told you to do it, I am mum just do it"
  13. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    No I knew it and had some loud long and pretty accrimoneous "conversations" with people over it - I said voting out meant all the things we are now seeing re a hard Brexit - No SM no CM no rolling over of trade deals etc and anything we got over that would be from whatever deal we could do which i thought would be little if we didnt want FOM or a big ongoing payment - unfortunately my leave voting mates were swearing blind Brexit didnt really mean those things as the Germans had control and basically BMW would make them give us a super deal so they could keep selling us cars - we would be allowed unfettered access to the SM easy frictonless borders with no extra paperwork (in fact we woudl cut it) we would simultaneously protect UK jobs while dropping inbound tariffs so we could have cheaper cost of living and with all the money we save we could protect the NHS - tell me which of those outcomes seems more correct. I am well aware that the EU is not perfect but I have never been in an organisation i agree with all the rules or all the actions of the leadership in - out looks like poo to me
  14. SSoutherner

    The all-new-ish Brexit Thread

    How we are seen from outside - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-historians-will-not-believe-sheer-ignorance-of-brexit-supporters-1.3695347?fbclid=IwAR2it_AZJAiDrmb10OS3E6RHb6kh_5zXffK85pYK4mtHnKX5MM2XeyUCqz0