RP London

and then actions... IMG will add actions, they are not just a consultancy, as has been shown by their announcements already, but lets not let that get in the way of insinuating they are merely a bunch of consultants. This is the major difference between what has happened before and what IMG offer IMHO, again, not saying any of this will work but its why I think it has the best chance we have had in a long long time.

The extra charges on them too.. its ludicrous. I hadnt realised that about the website.... i'll at that to the ludicrous pile too... it would be insulting to schoolboys to say it was a schoolboy error!

I'm really interested by what IMG can do in France, no matter how many people poopoo it. They have developed and grown the Euroleague Basketball and this includes French teams so you would hope that they have contacts and trust that maybe the RFL don't have and this may actually help. For me its the bonus of IMG, their experience and contact book could (but i stress could) make a quick difference.

I think you are right here. The vision of this growth from Red Hall and now New Red Hall (or whatever nonsense they want to call it) has been horrific. They want success NOW rather than waiting and building (similar to the way BP is talking to be honest). If companies start to see positive growth and plans then they will start to buy in IMHO. When we were getting good sponsors in the early 2000s it is no coincidence that this was when there were DOs around the country, it was when the RLC was growing and new areas at grassroots levels were coming on etc. It was where there seemed to be a plan for how to engage with more people and perhaps then building these and who knows where you go. (And lets be fair with a strong uni game and when the RLC was stronger and more widespread we would be catching all types of people at all types of companies in all types of locations.. that cant be a bad thing) It seemed like there was general positivity in the game. To take BP to a bit of an extreme but if we suddenly decided that the top level teams were going to be Birmingham, London, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff, Sheffield, Nottingham, Paris, Edinburgh and Newcastle then I still don't see big sponsors coming forward because this would be a totally new sport and a totally new league with no history whatsoever. When people get involved they want the history, they want the Wigans, Saint Helens, Leeds' they actually want the Warrington "always our year" style teams. But yes new teams in bigger cities to prove growth would also be great but they can come in time and they dont have to be at the expense of anyone, expansion can be expansion (14-16-18 team Super League). But NONE of that comes without what we have now.. Right now we need the nicer grounds to make us look more than just a poor northern sport, and they are coming, they will boost the ability to attract corporates. We need clubs and the governing body to actively go after that not be passive. We need the RFL to make more of the development of the game outside the heartlands and put more money in to grass roots growth (in and outside the heartlands but push outwardly [press/media] the development outside). Oh and when people do get on board make sure everyone knows that without them there is no money and no game so be positive ffs!

Jesus you two dont half bicker... are you sure you're not married? or at least family..

There are none so blind as those that will not see..

I was purely looking at the statistics that you wanted to use and showing that you were looking at them in a rose tinted way. I have stated that I dont think its fair to say that Wakey have had it rigged to stay up and that the RFL have, more correctly, been rigging it so that the promoted team dont stay up (and almost without shame in the last few years). If you really want me to answer your question I would say that looking at the statistics you have indeed been dodging relegation all these years and that you are fortunate that it is so rigged against the promoted team. You have the 2nd to worst average points total of any team that has been in the division for 15 or more seasons and the 3rd worst of any team that has been in the division 10 or more seasons. However, you have stayed up, by hook or by crook and hopefully with a developed ground, if you keep staying up, you may be able to push on and develop that.. the first task, after all, is to stay up.

Which is why I didn't say he did.. I said he would be well payed and that I wouldn't be surprised if he more than doubled it, because I wouldn't be surprised, even less so after reading that article! but highlighting I doubt he is making what he was at this present moment.

I'd agree with that way of looking at it.

This actually made for some interesting reading.. looks like a significant pay cut on the face of it but that may change if he is a success, then reading on there are "private payments" that will help "ease the cut" to Roger..... mmmm so the under the table payments havent died away just yet in Union https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300223612/blues-welcome-warriors-captain-roger-tuivasasheck-tightlipped-on-thirdparty-deal

image rights was where i was thinking he will see the largest growth

exactly.. we dont have the money to sponsor RL as a company (then again maybe we do to be honest) but its not something I would look at due to this type of attitude... we have sponsored a cycling team in the area (very good push on social media, great set of people to get involved with, helped develop product and help build things) and the local Hockey clubs (again pretty good) and had an ad board at Newcastle Thunder.. my next port of call would be Womens Football... but RL would be low down on my list due to the negativity I see towards sponsors to be honest.

well it would have had that effect but we were such nay sayers about it they didnt bid against Papa Johns the next time the "official Pizza suppliers sponsorship" came up for grabs (when we could have monetized it)

Done it myself on both sides... its a hell of an incentive and works well for both parties in my experience... we launched an entire new part of the business on the back of it and we couldn't have done that without this system in place it has made a massive difference to us, and to the business we worked with who we still work well with now on other projects... Our cash flow is still good and we are earning good money from it, though a proportion goes to them its ,similar to a bank loan in that respect but with all parties incentivised to make it work to its fullest (I want a successful business and they need it to be a success).. I've also done it the other way and we are still making nice money off that too, much more than we could have demanded upfront!

TBF it may not be an immediate pay rise but if he makes the All Blacks he will be very very well paid and I would not be at all surprised if it was more than doubling it.

Have a look at what IMG as a group of companies do, then you will very quickly understand why you don't take a list of recommendations and reports and try to implement it yourself rather than let them get on with it. If you dont see it then I (and probably no one else) cannot help you For all the rest all your points on % vs fixed cost have been covered many many times.. you dont want to see it and I'm not going over them for the 1,000th time!

I think the point is that if it was pushed by the clubs and the RFL and not made fun of, and then Papa John saw the potential uplift that this type of low level marketing could have they may have said "well in that case if we spend xyz we then get exponentially more".. as it was treated with scorn and ridicule they potentially then thought it was actually detrimental to be associated with such a sport, and other companies would also have seen the way they were treated and potentially thought "if we get involved would we get the same?". Papa Johns contributed free product and nothing more, however, it saved the clubs some pennies on food and it was another "partner" to add to the list (one that is very very short). It COULD have possibly gone on and done more but in the end it left... it cost nothing to us therefore there was only upside but people only saw "free" and "no money" and then ridiculed it.. so we get nothing.. again!

In average comparisons it is normal to take out those that have not been in for long, in the same way as a batsman in cricket does not get an official average until a set number of innings.. in this example you have Workington bottom, 1 season right at the start for a team that could not compete in a fully professional age, Leigh who had 2 seasons but 1 where they were well and truly shafted by the teams and the RFL, PSG 2 experimental seasons, Oldham with 2 seasons, Crusaders with 3 seasons and Sheffield with 4 seasons.. then its a jump to 8 seasons for Halifax. Gateshead have the highest average points but only played 1 season... which shows why you dont include these types of teams. perhaps 4 games could be enough (which just adds in Sheffield) but i dont think anything below this can show a meaningful average. Anyway your big thing was how you were performing well and everyone above you (except Bradford [3 years less] and Huddersfield [the same number of seasons] had played more seasons (3).. when it is equally true that everyone (except Salford [the same number of season]) below you had played less seasons and all except London (2 seasons less) were by more than the 3 years those above had on you. IMHO its not a great stat for you.... and the only current club below you on the AVG points is Salford.. who get rounded on in a similar way by many..

I think the bit in bold is key... I dont think the RFL is very good at "thinking outside of the box". They go back to the traditional stuff far too easily and while that is not necessarily a bad thing they don't look to the new enough. There is a lot out there to go at but how much are the RFL and clubs actually pushing into that. I do wonder how much they go out and look or these things and how much they just expect companies to come to them.. I feel its the latter more than the former

Whilst your first bit is true your second bit is not.. a good team will get more people in, in a nice stadium. There is also more chance of someone going to watch a poor team in a nice ground than they will in a poor ground. From experience I went once to see Eagles when they we "at home" at BV, I did not go again as I couldn't be bothered to travel that far to sit in that and watch a team that was "ok". However, in a nice stadium I would have and went to away matches for the novelty. BV has needed doing up for a long time, i dont think anyone would deny that. It will undoubtedly help their attendance (and the knock on of that).. of course a better performing team would do more for that but with more money coming in from just being a better ground to go to (and therefore more people going, more money spent etc) they will hopefully then be able to get a better team.

Whilst I dont agree with what is being said about Wakefield being poor in general or the league being rigged in their favour (though i would argue it is very much rigged against those coming up, of which Wakefield was one) I'd be careful of using the combined table.. of all the teams that have been in for as many season as Wakefield only Salford are below you. the next closest in length of tenure below you is London who have 2 years less and 23 points less. Other than that below you the next closest team in tenure is Catalans with 7 years less, Hull KR with 9, Widnes 11, Halifax 13 and then your into the likes of Sheffield.... If you were to use average points per season competing you'd be 13th out of 22.. but for sense we should take out any team that hasn't played more than 5 season really (Gateshead finish top of the table for a start otherwise!) at which point you finish 12th of 15 teams with only Salford, Widnes and Halifax behind you. As I say I don't agree with the argument that Wakefield add nothing and I am very glad BV is getting upgraded but I don't think your performance in the league is particularly good and the way you frame the stats is very much putting a positive spin on something that is not so positive. (Lies, damn lies and statistics etc)

Euroleague basketball is a good place to start as they took that on and developed it.

Of course. You would hope everyone has bought into this though, but this is Rugby League!

totally agree.. to take another analogy there will be a lot of paddling under the surface while looking calm and serene.. for example I would think there will be all manner of discussions with clubs about how they can improve themselves, things they may not actually understand or grasp properly that IMG will help with and help them build but wont have direct influence on. I really hope one is about the game day itself.. but not holding my breath.

Nor are Warrington..... (finish your own joke here)