Dave T

It was the craziest scenario I could come up with

I think if your first paragraph is true, and i don't disagree, then we just leave it as is and crack on.

Yeah. Speaking generally, the players do put their hand up to play.

yeah, I think things like this are what would make it workable, but I'm not sure it would be strong enough for Champ clubs to be happy as they ultimately dont have any control over this P&R. And would this sit alongside the standard grading piece?

Yup. They basically have control of all of the strongest RL nations with the exception of England. None of these nations are doing anything without the NRL controlling it. The Kiwis dared to try and do their own thing, partnering with the RFL, and Denver was the final act of insubordination that the Aussies would take. Since then, they have absolutely been pulled back in line. We now see a campaign of negging towards the England game, so much so that the takeover of the English game by the Aussies is on the agenda and would be happy-clapped through by many.

Yes, and in fact, an A club could too. But we know that it is your club ranking that does this. So if you get replaced, it is basically because you have done the exact thing that you shouldn't (spent your money on the pitch as opposed to strengthening your club both on and off the field). The issues isn't around getting relegated from 6th in itself, it is getting relegated from 6th by a far weaker club because we've decided that on-field performance trumps everything else - which is something that directly contradicts grading.

I think it was earlier in this thread that I posted some of the recent history crowds in Oz. There are plenty of reasons to believe that the interest is there to be cultivated. But I do agree that there is maybe something to be careful on here. There is a risk of being so fixated on that Tonga fanbase for example that the Aussies are neglected to an extent. The Aussies do need to be given a team that plays regularly (and at home) that they can get behind.

I agree. I think this is the end gamr as I've said a fair bit here recently The Aussies don't want other nations dictating, taking financial rewards, or forcing them to play more games. 3 matches appears to be their limit, plus a World Cup that probably won't be much more than 3.

No. It would be putting far too much weight on on field performance of the lower division club, and ignore the on field performance of the SL club. So if Widnes finished top of the Champ that is worthy of reward, but finishing 6th (or higher in SL) is not. Hull FC could finish 4th, with a very strong B grading, yet be replaced by a team who is weaker on the field and off it. It simply doesn't work.

Your post is contradictory. Hull FC could finish 6th with 14.9pts and be replaced by Widnes who invest in players to win the Champ but get only 9.5pts.

Yes, i don't mind that discussions are ongoing about the best way, but I'm not sure it's see a great system being proposed. This year we have Salford, Huddersfield and Hull FC as the SL grade B clubs. They could all have a really good season, all finishing in the playoffs, and then you relegated one of them. It doesn't work.

I quite like it, but I do think they have strong colours.

The issue i have with all this is that owners keep claiming they didn't know stuff (and this goes back years, way before this). I ask how this can keep happening - because people at the RFL have changed, IMG are new to the game. The consistent people are the owners who appear to keep being confused by things. The article is another weird one - one of the biggest narratives around this has been the removal of auto P&R, the case of London being the perfect example. In future they wouldn't be promoted just because they won the Champ. That really was crystal clear. We've all been arguing about it here for ages!

I made the comment earlier that one of the biggest issues we've had with the international game is not enough games, the other biggest issue to go along that is lack of regularity and consistency. Whenever we've seen positive signs of growth, we've had the rug pulled out of us by the Aussies. Whether that was back in the 90s and the SL war, or in the 00's and 10's with wanting years off, or changing plans and not wanting to play Ashes matches after agreeing them etc, to scrapping the 4N and not replacing them with the 6N agreed and the World 9's. To cancelling the World Cup, and even deciding that they won't host an Ashes next year after all. One of the things I find as an England RL fan, and an international RL fans is that it all feels a little fake. Tournaments lack credibility, we just get some random tests depending on what can be arranged. We don't really play away from home, it's all just a series of exhibitions really. The 4N period for me was the natural progression from bilateral test series, and they should then have been expanded further, but even in those the Aussies kept wanting years off.

It could be 2029 before the Aussies and Kiwis play each other in this tournament again. In fact, that could be the next time they play each other at all. Although I do think the 'super' group will return to the World Cup.

I'd love it if the survey was setup by Garry himself. One final bit of controversy before he hangs up his boots

Maybe, however the vote for this was over 6m later than the original release that made it clear.

Whilst there are many positives to what the matches delivered, the huge flaw in this whole model can't be ignored. There is a good chance that the winners of this comp may not appear in it for 3 of the next four years. Equally, they may, and the Ashes and World Cup could be at risk instead, but that aint a great way to run the international season! I think the way you get round this and keep momentum going is by the Aussies (and Kiwis in 2027) at least playing a Test match before they play their series away from this. That helps them keep a presence in their territory during that time of the year. The big issue that the international game has faced over the years has been lack of international games, this doesn't address that, and the biggest nations play fewer games than ever. It looks like the Aussies have found a way of playing three tests a year, which looks like it may suit the clubs. The World Cup has been reduced, the Four Nations reduced, ANZAC gone - this whole thing has been about culling internationals and taking control.

I think he is being cute with the truth here to play down the impact for the clubs. The tournament lasted for 3wks and 2 days, even though it covered 4 weekends. Each team played only 2 or 3 matches.

It is hard to believe that anyone would believe that any form of standard P&R was remaining for SL. This was from the RFL website in Sept 2022: Participation in the top tier to be based on a range of on and off field measures, delivered through a club grading system with the aim of supporting financial sustainability and encouraging investment into clubs. ‘Category A’ clubs will be guaranteed participation in the top tier whilst ‘Category B’ clubs will be re-assessed annually with the highest-ranking clubs occupying the remaining slots in the top tier. Promotion and relegation will continue on the field of play between the second and third tiers with tier two increasingly filled with strong Category B Clubs.

Did he play much in those other positions? I think i only ever saw him as a centre and stand off.

All the best to Garry with his health and the future, I hope he has many happy years with his family. But it wouldn't be a Garry Schofield article without plenty to disagree with! If he (and you) honestly believe that the sport is full of cheerleading journos and past players then he hasn't been reading about or watching the same sport as me.

I wonder whether the P&R game will come under review. I dont think it's brilliant that the Bowl finishes without a final. Even if it were to stay, I wonder whether the Bowl should start a week earlier so it has a Final and then the winner plays in the P&R match too.

Maybe, and i hope you're right. I think 25k crowds are certainly achievable and would be decent.

No, it's a shiner like the badges from the Pannini sticker albums.