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Non Cross Code
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Everything posted by DC77

  1. Interesting. Never thought about there being any link with class. Isn’t Aussie Rules working class though?
  2. The two of them were inseparable apparently. RIP.
  3. A non biased neutral dealing with a skewed, biased, Aussie Rules bashing RL devotee more like. No doubt we’d get similar bias from Aussie Rules devotees towards RL (a game for “bogans” apparently). https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/im-not-just-a-bogan-im-a-footy-bogan/news-story/596d114842aa37c91eee7308dcd6a28e It’s tedious and juvenile from both sides. And on the status of Aussie sports inside Australia, I have no idea, hence I used the word apparently in response to the claim of why Aussie Rules doesn’t get the same scrutiny there as RL. I then made a suggestion (‘posit’) why this may be the case, one of which was patriotism with Aussie Rules being the only Australian sport of note. I based this suggestion by using the example of Gaelic football here in Ireland, or the FA Cup final in England, activities/games that are defended at all cost as they are part of the fabric of the place.
  4. Enormous devotion and veneration from some on here towards Aussie RL. The Cumbrian Mackem fella goes as far as to bemoan the name of proposed new ‘franchises’ in the NRL (‘NZ team should be named Christchurch, not south island’). Think it’s down to wanting Aussie RL to grow so the existence of the sport as a whole is secure.
  5. Being entrenched in RL you can’t see the wood for the trees. Because I’m not entrenched in it I come from a much broader perspective. The Sydney media laud Aussie Rules apparently, and it ain’t the heartland of Aussie Rules. Clearly it must have a special status in Oz to receive such treatment. I posit in part it’s because of its status as Australian. Regards your RL comment, no question Aussies are myopic when it comes to the code. They celebrated the “centenary of the game”...not marking 1895, but when it was first played in Oz. Also, the 100 best RL players list, they had to have played in the NRL. Their myopia is largely justified in fairness as their national team has dominated the sport for half a century, and in terms of playing numbers and domestic media exposure they dwarf anywhere else. Regardless of this, it’s a Northern English working mans game, from the pit towns and villages of Yorkshire and Lancashire. That’s its DNA. Its ethics are also from its birth, a renegade birth. It has arguably got the strongest origin identity of any sport as it’s so specific in time, location and reason. The Aussies are good, very very good, at playing this renegade Northern English working mans game.
  6. The old I’ve got no argument so I’ll resort to the trolling desperation card. I’m not talking about where it’s a religion (I know it’s west of that line they came up with). I’m speaking about its identity as Australian as to why perhaps it doesn’t game the same scrutiny as other sports (similar to the FA Cup and English culture). Some sports transcend others in a national consciousness. In Ireland it’s Gaelic football (despite the English version of football being the most popular...with the pandemonium of the Charlton years unseen in any other sport). It’s part of Irish identity. Aussie Rules has that status in Oz. An Aussie product, an Aussie creation, with Aussie ethics and mannerisms. It’s Australian. RL is a northern English working mans game created in Yorkshire and Lancashire pit towns/villages. RU is a southern English middle class public school game. Strangely football, while born and bred in England (“football’s coming home”) it does not possess the same Englishness of the rugby codes or cricket. There isn’t the same origin story or entrenched English identity of the game...perhaps as it’s become universal.
  7. You misunderstand. Yes if you ask folk here to name an Aussie sportsman, chances are Shane Warne would top the list. Plus the Ashes series would be undoubtedly the most high profile contest involving Australia. But, ask folk to name an Aussie sport (UK and globally) the answer is Aussie Rules. On a side note, cannot believe I’m having to tell someone in a sports forum that cricket is not an Australian sport. It’s as English as Morris dancing and Devonshire tea. It featured in the village green segment of the opening ceremony of the London Olympics. “Jolly good shot old chap”, whites, time for tea, Lords, “it’s just not cricket”. Football may be the national pastime, but cricket is the quintessential English game. While Aussie Rules would be the sport that features in an Aussie postcard, cricket (and football...as it would have to be in there too) would appear in an English one. Leaving aside it’s English identity for a second, cricket is the most unAustralian of sports. A larrikin in Shane Warne in whites is two complete opposites. Basically Aussies are putting a spin (pardon the pun) on this most English of activities.
  8. The atmosphere in Aussie Rules games looks really good. Loads of flags, singing and colour and what not, similar to football games here. Obviously they want to see their team win, but the event is bigger than the actual result. They have a loyalty to their team and a passion for the game, so, they will be there next week, again, similar to football here. From what is said on here RL doesn’t have this status in Oz as crowds are determined by results.
  9. I wonder if there is a patriotic element to it, given Aussie Rules status as the most Australian of sports. It’s part of the Aussie DNA, part of the fabric of Aussie culture, so a bad result/performance here or there is a non issue. It’s status as an emblem of Oz takes precedence over any perceived issues. You kinda see it with the FA Cup here. No question as a competition it’s not what it was. With the emergence of the Premier League and the Champions League it doesn’t carry the same weight it used to. But, you see the media do everything to laud it...”the magic of the Cup”. There is a constant defence of it and that’s because it’s part of the fabric of English culture, “Cup final day”. Lineker was in tears at the weekend with Leicester finally winning it and recalled his dad taking him to the final 50 years ago. It’s bigger than just a game.
  10. Aussie Rules is the most Australian of sports, indeed the only Australian sport (of any significance). If there is a postcard with a collage of images of all things Aussie, and one sport makes it in, its Aussie Rules. Aussie Rules ain’t my cup of tea, but bashing it is juvenile. Different strokes and all that. The one thing it does better than any other sport (imo) is how the umpire (or referee, or official) signifies a score. Epic. Most folk from here (UK and Ireland) became Aussiephiles via TV shows, namely Home and Away and Neighbours (recall a girl in primary school who had travelled to Ramsay Street which amazed everyone...this during the Scott and Charlene era). The one sport from there that stood out a mile was Aussie Rules. I get that on this forum RL in Aus will be the biggest deal, but outside of this enclave it’s entirely different. If I’m visiting Oz, and want to sample sport in Oz, I’m going to see an Aussie Rules game.
  11. 100%. Perhaps I used the wrong term by referring to RL as a “British Empire” game in a manner that both RU are cricket are, a distinction which Dunbar made. RL is a by product of Empire. Take out the Empire, that British activity where one bloke throws the ball backwards to another bloke doesn’t get the enormous leg up in being spread to British expats in far flung places around the globe. Ultimately this refutes The Future is League bragging about Aussie Rules not being international. The Aussies just never had an Empire to spread it.
  12. RL didn’t “arrive” in Aus, it is a by product of RU being played in Aus. Without the Empire, there is no “rugby” in Aus. https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/rugby-league-splits-from-rugby-union “Rugby football quickly spread to other such schools across the country. Ex-public schoolboys continued to play in adulthood, travelling to matches on the rapidly expanding train network. As they took up roles as administrators in the British Empire, rugby spread around the world. A meeting in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire on 29 August that year between 21 clubs formed the Northern Rugby Football Union, or Northern Union. At the same time in New South Wales, rugby was growing in popularity and many players shared the frustrations of their English counterparts.” The footprint of RL (Eng, Aus, NZ, Pacific islands) is a junior version of the footprint of RU. Is it an establishment footprint like RU? No, as you gave alluded to with the armed forces/colonial administrators comment. It’s a rebellious footprint, but one that wouldn’t exist without the British game of “rugby” being spread to British expats throughout the Empire.
  13. The point is you are comparing Aussie Rules failure to be played outside Aus with RL. Both rugby codes are almost exclusively British Empire games, cricket too, hence the reliance on the Empire for the spread of these activities. Aussies never had an Empire to spread Aussie Rules to other parts of their Empire. Some sports don’t need an Empire to spread (football and basketball being the major two team sports, tennis and golf the major two individual sports). This doesn’t apply to the rugby codes, cricket likewise Aussie Rules, so there is zip to brag about. Regards baseball (aka rounders), after this British children’s game was exported to the US from Britain in the late 1700s to early 1800s, it never spread outside the US until it occupied Japan, Philippines etc. with its imperial influence also spreading to Venezuela and the Dominican Republic. It too has relied on Empire.
  14. The Aussies didn’t have an Empire, that’s why Aussie Rules ain’t played outside Aus. Both rugby codes (to all intents and purposes) are British commonwealth games And in regards to the cricket comment, doesn’t Aussie Rules have the highest crowds in Aus? If so, they more than anyone merit the use of municipal stadiums.
  15. The great Alan McLoughlin, the man whose goal in a sinister, toxic, hate riddled stadium in Belfast against Norn Iron sent the Republic of Ireland through to the 1994 World Cup, has died. Billy Bingham (Norn Iron manager who egged on the Norn Iron fans) was devastated. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56985844 RIP. Thank you for this epic moment Alan.
  16. It’s from a little Englander/Britisher so par for the course.
  17. Internationals are undoubtedly the highest profile games in RL (and RU). The sport cannot increase its footprint through club games, it relies on the international game to do that. And right here we have the difference between here and North America. In North America the owner is king, it’s HIS team, he can move it to a different location at the whim of further lining his pockets from his customers. He even picks up the trophy before any players/manager who won the bleedin thing. It’s soulless. These “franchises” (horrible term) are businesses first, second and third, vehicles to make money for their owner. They exist to maximise his (or her) profit. This is an alien concept here: “At a football club there’s a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques.” - Bill Shankly, Liverpool FC. Teams here are at the heart of their community, supporters ARE the club (followed by players/manager a distant second). Franchises there up sticks and move if the owner decides he can milk more money for himself from customers elsewhere.
  18. The yank franchise system would have been an abomination for football, however in RL it may be ideal for the reason you state. Having a closed shop in football would have made winning meaningless, as success is nothing when there is no risk of failure. With no money flowing down the pyramid it also would have killed off all those small town football clubs, clubs that are at the heart of their community. Rugby league doesn’t have this set up as there are so few clubs that have the capacity to play at the highest level, and the small clubs don’t get much money from the top league anyway so they’d survive just fine if it was closed.
  19. In regards to talent the Aussies will always dwarf England due to the difference in player pool, unless RL in England one day becomes comparable in size to Aus. It’s an unfair match up really. You’d like to think playing at home would give England some sort of advantage, but in RL I don’t think it really applies, certainly not to anywhere near the degree it does in football. With empty stadiums in the Premier League this is the first season in English top flight history there have been more away wins than home, emphasising (not that it was needed) the pivotal role an atmosphere can bring. Liverpool playing Real Madrid last week at an empty Anfield in the second leg of the Champions League...not many could see a Liverpool comeback, a full Anfield and it’s a different story. RL being much more rapid (pass, pass, pass hit, pass, pass, pass hit...kick, opposition turn..pass, pass, pass hit etc) players barely get time to think/get affected by the crowd, plus the gameplay of RL is much more structured with set routines so less chance for an individual to make an error/poor choice which again means the crowd has less influence. Aussies have won every RLWC for the last fifty years so home or away matters little, in fact the only one they didn’t win was in Aus. The virus may play a part. Some Aussies may be reluctant to travel. If it was a series and the Aussies are at full strength then chances of beating them are slim to none, but a one off game the chances improve somewhat. England do have the right coach in place to achieve it.
  20. One of the greatest scores in sport. 100% agree with the proposal and it’s something that should be done. I dare say Harry Sunderland is not someone many RL devotees would know (never mind non devotees), in contrast to Burrow. Take away the horrible disease (for which he’s shown tremendous dignity) and ask does he merit it purely in a sporting context. For a man of his size to do what he did in such a physically demanding sport the answer is yes.
  21. It was talking points galore which is fantastic. Loved the Jim Bowen “have a look at what you would have won” comment from Carney in response to Jenna Brooks telling Gaskell he woulda won MOTM had they won.
  22. Class act Tony Smith. Rather than talk about any referee decisions he focuses on what his own team didn’t do.
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