HawkMan

Nations League semi finals tonight and tomorrow on Amazon Prime. I have that, but disappointed to find its on pay per view Prime. However at £ 2.49 per semi , so both games for less than a London pint, so I've got them, a bit grudgingly, I hope they're worth it. Final on Sunday on FTA ITV Germany v Portugal Spain v Italy

You got it! That's what I'm saying, think about it, it's not about the gameplay, because that's not all that good most of the time, it must be something else. My brother is a huge Arsenal fan, but never goes to games, just watches MOTD , and not that often. But he's thoroughly immersed in the competitions they're in, what the coach says,and lording it over me ! If football was played in a total corinthians spirit , no diving, no juvenile bickering between the coaches, no huge transfers sagas, Sky have just started their endless progs about the just opened transfer window, if people just solely concentrated on the gameplay, a lot would get bored and lose interest. The peripheral stuff is not more important but equally as crucial to its popularity. If you're looking for in game reasons for its popularity, then you'll never find it. Equally trying to convince these fans to watch RL , because it's more entertaining is futile, their reply is likely to be, " what's entertainment got to do with anything?" That's not to say people don't enjoy the skills like dribbling or great free kicks round the wall, or some exciting games, great comebacks, of course they do, but the reasons for continually coming back are not solely to see that.

I never mentioned disease, I'm not sure you get what I was saying. My team just won silverware for the first time in 17 years, it was the most turgid boring European final ever inflicted on the football public..and I couldn't care less. Football fans genuinely have a good time, enjoy the occasion and even an individual match even if it was incredibly boring, if the result is right. No one is deluded into thinking," wow that was entertaining" when it wasn't. The winning matters, the entertainment can come from the peripheral goings on, the coaches the controversies, the press conferences when for example, Arteta says Arsenal were the best in the Champions League after losing to PSG in the semis, who won the whole thing, we all look forward to him extricating himself from that nonsense he spouted. It's a soap opera really, the gameplay excitement is nice to have but not essential.

Your puzzlement of the popularity of football stems from believing it is popular because of the entertainment on the pitch..it isn't! Entertainment on the pitch is pretty low in priority for us footy fans, yes I enjoy both RL and football. All the ideas mooted on here for RL competitions, football has. Massive world cups, trans euro competitions, trans continental comps in all continents. Promotion and relegation, no silly IMG style points, the dream of promotion to the big leagues the dream of every lower league fan. Before Gingerjon says it , of course ground requirements have to be met before ascending the levels. A nationwide game, bragging rights, diving players you can boo, unless they're from your team of course. The coaches on the touchline acting like schoolkids, the controversies, the ridiculous and almost obscene wages and bloated transfer market, all contributing to its popularity, entertaining play ain't a priority. I've known many soccer fans who openly think RL is easily the better game but won't get into it because they'll miss all the above stuff. And just when the season is now over , there's World Cup qualifying matches, then the preposterous FIFA World Club Cup, which started like RL WCC but now is going to be a 32 team tournament on FTA CH 5 which everyone thinks is a tournament too far, but it'll be watched globally anyway, then the Women's Euros then it all starts again. That's why it's popular despite being .er..let's say, can often be a bit pedestrian.

Force fed, absolutely ,have you ever wondered why they keep turning up week after week? Don't they get there , see it's boll****, then never go again , are they so stupid? No , it's because an amnesia drug is in the half time cuppas or pies, this makes them forget the experience so they go again and again. Fact checked by QAnon

After 28 studio albums, and 50 years of recording, what an incredible achievement! To still be relevant to the latest music buying generation is amazing. Congrats to Russell and Ron.

I blame FIFA, they come up with a glorious idea that er.. everyone loves and er... is desperate to take part in, with top broadcasters like er...Channel 5 want , and now everyone wants the same. I hope Union fans get as much pleasure out of watching it as football fans have of FIFA's must- not- see event.

Sunderland back in Premier League, it's the year of the underdog in finals. Newcastle, Spurs, Aberdeen, Crystal Palace, hopefully Leyton Orient tomorrow and Wimbledon on Monday. Livingston v Ross C is 50/50 and I've a feeling for Real Betis against Chelsea with Man Utd misfit Anthony scoring the winner. No real favourite for CL, I fancy Milan. BTW can't understand Sky showing Liverpool v Palace on Sunday. They're showing Forest v Chelsea and TNT with Man Utd v Villa, but why aren't Sky showing Newcastle v Everton with CL place on the line. They have cameras at all games so no problem showing Liverpool lifting the trophy without having to show entire match.

Club world Cup schedule https://www.live-footballontv.com/fifa-club-world-cup-on-tv.html Some interesting match ups, Bayern v Boca Juniors Benfica v Boca PSG v Botafogo The DAZN matches are free to air too. I don't have that as a sub, but the app is on my Sky Q box, and after investigating, yes you can access it without paying for the Club WC.

John Aldridge, born Liverpudlian, Irish parents, played for Charlton's Rep of Ireland team sadly, IMO good enough for England, but wasn't picked and chose Ireland.

Is this one of BBC's regular picks, if so why on the iPlayer, or red button?

That really shocked me, United were terrible, the worst United team since the relegated team in the early 70s. Amorim's position is probably secure but there must be serious doubt about his ability, his tactics are worse than Ten Hag. Will Postecoglou stay....no idea, it'll be very brave of Levy to sack him after this.

Oh...was that tonight...did we win?

Unless the newspaper, this forum, and everyone posting here and the whole world is in your head. Perhaps we are just brains in vats.

Tricky to answer: Postecoglou is out of his depth, tactically naive and should go whatever happens in Bilbao, and I think he will. Twenty One defeats is a disgrace. 6 teams in the Champions league from one country is ridiculous IMO, an extra place for co efficient OR Europa League win is fine but NOT BOTH. But rules are rules so I'll take it, and hope we win and get a decent manager next season. However if I was putting money on the result I'd pick United, Ange resting players for two weeks now, will I think come back to bite him.

Henderson handball- the VAR can't interfere to recommend a yellow card only a red. So as the ref didn't stop play presumably because he didn't see any offence, VAR looked at it and thought " that's a yellow no interference needed." Question is why did VAR think it wasn't a red card? Because the direction of the ball meant it wasn't a goalscoring opportunity, in their view. What if the ref had seen it and sent Henderson off? VAR presumably would have thought it was a yellow and sent the ref to the screen. Very strange, I think VAR simply bottled it. As for City, there's been a school of thought , headed unofficially by Roy Keane that City are not as effective with Haaland. He could be right, Haaland contributes very little when he isn't being served with precision through balls or pinpoint crosses, but he's on a long contract so he's staying put, unless Madrid come calling, then City might be tempted to let him go, they seemed IMO to be more effective pre Haaland.

Er...are you being sarcastic? I certainly was! It was a joke, as I assume your pyramid reference was.

Sigh.... the number of theories people come up with to explain the popularity of football because it can't be admitted that perhaps, just perhaps people like it, enjoy it and think it's enjoyable game. Well let's see, hmmm, Subliminal advertising; hidden messages forcing people to watch football placed during transmissions of episodes of Corrie and Eastenders. Carragher, Gary Neville and Roy Keane are actually shape shifting alien lizards drawing people to watch football by their eye catching comments all part of an alien conspiracy to get as many people to watch the stupid game to make Humanity easier to mould. Why did the Apollo missions stop going to the moon ? Because it was discovered that on the dark side aliens had set up a transmitter aimed at Earth beaming Pro football anti RL signals into the minds of movers and shakers to control Humanity. The Pentagon agreed to leave them at it in return of joint partnership in this mass control of Humanity using football. They are NO OTHER REASONS for football's popularity.

"O blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the Earth, or punished for their sins, whatever is more appropriate " Chapter 10 verse 3, Book Of Tax Gatherers.

My Dad used to tell me about 50s and 60s football, the huge attendances, 70,000 squeezed in for old First Division matches. Rupert Murdoch and his ilk were unknowns then, who was brainwashing the masses then? This whole brainwashing, or football fans are somehow conned into going spiel is remarkable. Apparently they go under false pretenses, realise they've been conned then suffer amnesia, forget the disappointment and troop along next week. Unless they're too stupid to know they're not enjoying themselves. Yesterday's Sunderland v Coventry game broke EFL attendance record for a two legged play off tie, over 70,000, wow! 70,000 fools brainwashed by the media, who'd have thought it. Actually the above mentioned games are perfect examples of why football is popular. I watched both games and the technical skill and entertainment quality was average to poor at best, but that doesn't matter. For fans it's all about bragging rights, community pride, the dream of promotion, getting to the top. Liberal promotion and relegation keeps everyone interested even if the actual match is s***. Look at Wrexham since Ryan Reynolds came in, non league to Championship in three years, no one cares if the games are rubbish, that's the position football is in, an entertainment that doesn't need to be entertaining to prosper. That's why extolling the merits of RL and how entertaining it is compared to football will never win football fans over, because there's a false assumption that footy fans go just to be entertained, they don't.

Wrong thread.

Qualification for the Europa League is of course based on previous year's league positions, and United and Spurs had good seasons last year, relatively speaking. So that's why they and others who maybe going through difficult times this season are in it. So far so good, but I'm really surprised UEFA didn't make a rule that states 5 teams is the maximum number for a country in the champions league, either the extra place for co- efficient points or winning the Europa League BUT NOT BOTH, 6 places seems ridiculous, but as a Spurs fan I'll take it, however I'm expecting United to win it. Spurs squad is in a good place,we just need a manager capable of utilising it properly, but United need a complete rebuild and failure to win the Europa for them will be catastrophic.

I'll bow to others superior knowledge of Newcastle. Genuine question; does what is happening at NUFC NOW have zero effect in attracting new fans to RL in the city?

Perhaps he could see interest waning because of what was happening across the city. It would be really amazing if NUFC becoming nominally the richest club in the world had absolutely no effect on a rival sporting attraction.

It seems to me the downturn in the fortunes of Thunder coincided with the Saudis buying NUFC. Perhaps dissatisfied Toon Army members fed up with Ashley boosted Thunder attendances and interest, but now with NUFC now acting like a proper big club , these dissatisfied fans crept back to the NUFC fold.