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How many competitive clubs do you need to make a good competition?


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#21 HappyDave

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 22 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey Dave, why don't you go tell that to Padge as well?


Hey Padge, I don't think the Barcleys Premiership will ever get anyone watching it due to the having a Big 4... laugh.gif

Btw, stop going on about Toulouse! They're NOT getting in Super League in the next round of franchising you'll have to wait until at least 2018 (or is it 2020?) until they'll fit the criteria if they get fast tracked it will be farsical

Edited by HappyDave, 22 July 2010 - 11:03 PM.

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#22 no13benny

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:44 PM

QUOTE (BringBacktheBiff @ Jul 22 2010, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting topic. Im all for expansion and would love to see more teams compete next time the licences are handed out, with Widnes and a Cumbrian added to the current 14. However this season has shown that there arent enought SL standard players in the country to support 14 Franchises let alone more. IMO Salford Quins and Catalans are some way behind the others and to a lesser extent the Bulls and Crusaders too. The others I feel are very competetive and I think any of the current top 6 are in with a decent shout of winning the Grand Final.


Catalans beat Saints at KR two weeks ago. Salford beat Saints earlier in the season. Harlequins beat Wigan earlier in the season, at Wigan. Bradford went on a run of 9 straight wins before going on a similar run of losses. Crusaders beat Leeds at Headingley a few weeks ago.

(sorry it was Saints a couple of times to any Saints fans, but they were the examples I could think of.)

I know one game doesn't make a season, but the gap between the top and the bottom is closing.
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#23 The Parksider

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:29 AM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 22 2010, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The ideal situation for Super League would be if the core big M62 clubs plus several expansion clubs, were competitive.

This would mean:

Wigan, St Helens, Warrington
Leeds, Bradford
Hull FC


Harlequins, Crusaders
Catalans, Toulouse


If we had these ten clubs out of fourteen competitive then we would have reached the "balanced playing field" situation of the NRL. SL would be a sensational viewing experience each week with huge crowds. That will take a long time to achieve given the current financial resources inequalities and the current economic recession.

In the interim we should hope and aim for at least five core M62 clubs and three diversity clubs to be competitive.


You forgot huddersfield who as a better funded club than Bradford are more of a threat at the top. You forgot Widnes who should run to full salary cap. Competetiveness along the M62 is fundamentally based on being able to spend full salary cap on a regular annual basis.

The expansion clubs in GB lack both the fans and the quality juniors coming through, one can only hope that as RL builds as a game in those areas they will improve on both, and maybe quality local players coming through from those regions will stimulate the fan base.

I'd like to see Bradford, Salford and Wakefield realise decent stadia to improve their fanbases and income. In time if there's a lot of equal competition for the best junior talent around the M62 game, whilst Crusaders and a London club get the pick of the best across their regions that may help level things up as well.

The development of SL as a top to bottom competetive league is a long and slow process due to an underdevelopment of the game and it's infrastructure. Some clubs have had a decent stadia attracting the fans and full cap since 1996, some haven't got either of those pre-requisites yet and may not for a few years more.

There's a few other twists that give the top clubs an advantage but in the main a club needs a decent stadia that attracts fans and a full salary cap team on the pitch, whilst an expansion club also needs it's junior infrastructure to get up to the standard along the M62.

As for the French sides it's easy to blame the coach, but we still need to see young players coming through that are SL standard, you can pick them out at Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Hull, Fartown and even Wire ohmy.gif now, and point to a number of Londoners at Quins, but I feel that you can't see the same at Les Catalans - yet you have had a French Junior RL for many many years. The feeling is Toulouse were judged on a lack of quality home grown players, and refused entry last time accordingly.

What we may see as the next pick of 14 SL clubs may be just about the best we can do for a long time to come. Hopefully the conditions will remain for clubs to continue to build up income and standards, albeit slowly, whilst competetiveness builds as a result.

If conditions change, Like sugar daddies pulling out, stadia not coming off, and kids not coming through in areas away from the M62 then sadly the league may end up with either a rump of four or five easy beats, or will move to a fallback position to increase standards and competetiveness by going back to 12 clubs or even 10 with them playing each other three times.


#24 The Parksider

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:40 AM

QUOTE (no13benny @ Jul 23 2010, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Catalans beat Saints at KR two weeks ago. Salford beat Saints earlier in the season. Harlequins beat Wigan earlier in the season, at Wigan. Bradford went on a run of 9 straight wins before going on a similar run of losses. Crusaders beat Leeds at Headingley a few weeks ago.

The gap between the top and the bottom is closing.


Your observations are spot on and we now see clubs being able to beat each other on each others grounds if they can simply perform on the day. I would just love to see more good quality SL players start to come through in France, Wales, and the south east, as they do along the M62, and I'd love to see attractive grounds in the Wakefield area, Salford and Bradford materialise.

Whilst finance remains a problem, it may be that one day we see a Welsh, French or London club dominate SL for a spell and hog the trophies. If that happens I think we may be able to say RL has made it out of it's northern straightjacket, and it'll be a great great day for the game indeed.

#25 Steve May

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:23 AM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Jul 22 2010, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The ideal situation for Super League would be if the core big M62 clubs plus several expansion clubs, were competitive.

This would mean:

Wigan, St Helens, Warrington
Leeds, Bradford
Hull FC


Harlequins, Crusaders
Catalans, Toulouse


I'm not sure that Wrexham is actually all that far away from the M62. Isn't it about 30 miles or so?
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#26 The Parksider

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE (Steve May @ Jul 23 2010, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure that Wrexham is actually all that far away from the M62. Isn't it about 30 miles or so?


And your point is??? biggrin.gif


#27 Steve May

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:28 AM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Jul 23 2010, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And your point is??? biggrin.gif


'Twas merely an observation.
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#28 BringBacktheBiff

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:18 AM

QUOTE (no13benny @ Jul 23 2010, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Catalans beat Saints at KR two weeks ago. Salford beat Saints earlier in the season. Harlequins beat Wigan earlier in the season, at Wigan. Bradford went on a run of 9 straight wins before going on a similar run of losses. Crusaders beat Leeds at Headingley a few weeks ago.

(sorry it was Saints a couple of times to any Saints fans, but they were the examples I could think of.)

I know one game doesn't make a season, but the gap between the top and the bottom is closing.

I see your point but i personally feel the league was closer last season and to a certain extent the season before, although given last season there were 14 teams.




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