Wholly Trinity

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  1. Wholly Trinity

    Our new position in the EU

    Should we run a caption competition to guess the outrageous claim/faux pas he'd paint on the side?
  2. Wholly Trinity

    New Grounds.

    Wakefield is a small city (76 000) and only has one professional sports club (Wakefield Trinity)
  3. Wholly Trinity

    New Grounds.

    Where to start? Short version A developer was given permission to build on greenbelt land in possibly the best location in the north of England for a distribution centre, on an underused junction of the M62, one junction from the M1. This was only granted, after a public inquiry and despite objections from local residents, Leeds City Council and Castleford Tigers!, because of the special circumstances of the need for community sports facilities and a 12k stadium suitable for SL. (This was when franchising was still around and they were the minimum standards). The sports facilities were supported by a 15000 signature petition. The stadium and other sports facilities were to owned and run by a community trust, set up by the council, and Trinity would be the anchor tenants. As community facilites, they would be available for use by anyone in the district (even Cas Tigers!). The club would pay peppercorn rent to the trust, but be responsible for insurance and maintenance. The developer saw the opportunity to delay/avoid its responsibilities in the hope that the club would disappear and the need for a stadium would be removed and they could add an extra £10M to their profits.The SoS/Council were perhaps a little naive (with hindsight) by not making the s.106 more watertight and time bound. The agreement was that the stadium should be built when no more than 60 000 sq.m. of the site was built out. More detail Everything was going well, the road works were done and a huge cold storage was planned and built (now 2 buildings). It then transpired that these would not count towards the trigger point as they were done on a separate application because they were taller than the original planning allowed. The only person from the Community Trust who knew this to be the case was the then chairman who, for reasons only known to himself, didn't tell anyone else and no objections were made to this planning. WMDC said they'd taken legal advice on this loophole and there was nothing they could do. This legal advice was then shown to be non-existent following a freedom of information request. The ground was owned by the Bank of Ireland after a land deal between the then owner and Sainsbury went pear-shaped at the start of the credit crunch, which led to the club going into administration. The next owner also took the club to the brink of a second administration within a couple of years due to very poor financial control. The current owners picked up the club and worked miracles to restore financial stability. The ground then came up for sale and the club were looking to buy it, but they were told by the council not to bid because the developer was going to buy it and they didn't want to increase the price. It turned out the developer didn't put in a bid and a third party got the ground and surrounding land for a bargain. (more naivety?). The trust & club looked into taking legal action against the council for not enforcing the s.106. This was seemingly dropped when a new proposal was put forward involving the new owner and the current Belle Vue site. The council asked for detailed heads of terms from the developer on how they were going to build the sports facilities. This turned out to be an unworkable, back of a fag packet plan, which was quickly rejected. The council promised to get tough with the developer and there were also suggestions that they would facilitate funding from capital expenditure to allow the development to start (a bit like the deal Leeds have for Headingley). The club offered to cover all interest payments up to the point when funding was made available from the original developer. The new proposal was to redevelop the current stadium, rather than build on the planned site at Newmarket. It seemed like a great deal for the developer as it would be a smaller/cheaper stadium (10k) and would make more land available at the other site, but beggars can't be choosers and time was running out. Then it transpires that the council decided they would no longer work with the Community Trust they set up and wanted to work with a new trust which was to be set up by the previous chairman (remeber him?) and despite previously stating the opposite. More pretty plans were drawn up by the new owner and it seemed just a matter of time until building began. Then it went quiet again. A fresh meeting was held (yesterday?) and now there are tentative noises about 'it's progressing, but it's complicated with many parties involved'. The planning permission for the original Newmarket site reached the 5 year stage and renewed planning was put in. This time the trust was on the ball and made a coordinated objection based on the lack of progress on the s.106. The deadline for this passed some time ago, but was extended and we are still awaiting the outcome. So, who knows what will happen or when. It's a long and sorry tale for both clubs trying to get a new stadium for around 40 years now. Ironically, even though the stadium at Cas is perceived to be more likely and imminent, it's actually in the same position the Newmarket site was 5 years ago, just waiting for a few more clients to sign up and then the building will start. So, in answer to you question, "who is to blame?", take your pick: Developer/council/SoS/previous owners/previous trust chaiman/new land owner/the club... or any combination of them.
  4. Wholly Trinity

    New Grounds.

    Both clubs have legally binding s.106 undertakings with developers to finance the stadium builds. The Wakefield one coming after a public inquiry and SoS decision. These are not pretend agreements made up by the clubs to appease the RFL. That the developers are seeking to delay or avoid their responsibilities combined with WMDC's reluctance or inability to enforce the action means we are in the current impasse. The idea that the 2 clubs coming together would by some miracle or magic create a stadium is real cloud cuckoo stuff. Neither club has any money to commit (financially) to any joint stadium. In theory, Cas could sell their stadium, but once the mortgage is paid off, not much would be left. As with most other new stadiums, they need funding from an enabling development (which they have) and/or support from local government.
  5. Wholly Trinity

    New Grounds.

    Both clubs currently have agreements in place to fund their respective stadiums and are still pursuing those targets. Neither project has ever reached a final dead end nor a start to construction. At what point do both clubs decide simultaneously to abandon these plans and start a new joint project, which has no better guarantee of success? Perhaps if there were a 3rd party, such as WMDC or the RFL, pushing for such a solution, and had plans for location and finance in place, then heads could be knocked together, but no such scenario exists.
  6. Wholly Trinity

    New Grounds.

    So, where will this joint stadium be built and who's going to pay for it? It's at least 10 years too late for a new project from scratch. The HMS Common Sense has sailed. This is now the non-starter. There is absolutely zero political will from WMDC for such a solution. The die is cast. Each club gets its own stadium in the very near future or they start their painful journey to extinction. If only one club gets one built, the other's demise would be even more rapid.
  7. Wholly Trinity

    New Grounds.

    Although it seems blindingly obvious to anyone outside the Wakefield District that the 2 (or 3) clubs should share a stadium, there are reasons why it has never happened. 1. There is no-one to pay for such a stadium. The local council will not help to fund any stadium as they feel they would have to do the same for all 3 clubs. One of the clubs has always been in a more dominant position and has refused to compromise. Back at the start of SL, only Trinity were prepared to accept the 'Calder' merger option. (The M word is also a major deterrent to any shared stadium. 2. Castleford would not play in a stadium outside Castleford. The town's identity with the RL club is what keeps it going. 8000 crowds from a 40 000 population is pretty impressive (Featherstone likewise). Normanton was mooted at one point, which is between the 3 clubs (see point 1) and the seemingly now dead-end project at Newmarket is not in the City of Wakefield and is pretty much dead centre between the current 2 grounds. It would also have been a community stadium and not owned by either club, both could have been equal tenants. Castleford refused any deal. 3. Wakefield would not play in a stadium in Castleford. For similar reasons to that above, it would be the end of the club. The current project in Castleford would be privately owned by Castleford RLFC, gifted to them as part of the 5 towns development.Trinity would be tenants of Castleford, who would have total control over its use. Could you imagine if Wigan were kicked out of the DW and then decided to pay rent to play at St. Helens? Hopefully the problem will be solved in the next few years with each club having its own small stadium. The most optimistic fans see Cas' stadium being funded by the 5 towns project and they can then sell off Wheldon Road to become very strong financially and Belle Vue will be redeveloped using funding from the Newmarket development. At present, neither of these is set in concrete and the saga continues...
  8. Wholly Trinity

    Neil Fox

    Sorry, the first one was a quick copy and paste from Wiki, clearly as reliable as ever, but you get the gist. It may be telling that I can't even find reliable/consistent figures for his achievements. Also, it was only 3 points for a try in his era.
  9. Wholly Trinity

    Neil Fox

    1 Neil Fox (Wakefield/Bradford/Hull KR/York/Bramley/Huddersfield, 1956-79) 6,220 2 Jim Sullivan (Wigan, 1921-46) 6,022 3 Gus Risman (Salford/Workington/Batley, 1929-54) 4,050 4 John Woods (Leigh/Warrington/Bradford/Rochdale, 1976-92) 3,985 5 Cyril Kellett (Hull KR/Featherstone, 1956-74) 3,686 6 Kel Coslett (St Helens/Rochdale, 1962-79) 3,545 7 Mick Nanyn (Swinton/Rochdale/Whitehaven/Widnes/Oldham/Leigh, 1999-2011) 3,514 8 Lewis Jones (Leeds, 1952-64) 3,445 9 Kevin Sinfield (Leeds, 1997-present) 3,440 10 Steve Quinn (York/Featherstone, 1970-88) 3,438 Stats compiled by Daniel Spencer From 2013 about Sinfield 'catching up' to top points scorers
  10. Wholly Trinity

    Neil Fox

    Club Years Team Pld T G FG P 1956–69 Wakefield Trinity 441 399 1442 0 6006 1969–70 Bradford Northern 28 15 15 0 90 1970–74 Wakefield Trinity 133 34 394 0 890 1974–75 Hull Kingston Rovers 59 16 210 2 470 1976 York 13 8 42 0 116 1976–77 Bramley 23 6 73 0 164 1977–78 Huddersfield 23 5 72 1 160 1978–79 Bradford Northern 43 8 73 1 171 Total 763 491 2321 4 8067 Representative Years Team Pld T G FG P 1958–68 Yorkshire 17 9 60 0 147 1962 England 1 1 3 0 9 1959–69 Great Britain 29 14 93 0 228
  11. Wholly Trinity

    7 tackle rule

    That'd work for me. 20m tap or level with where the ball was kicked, whichever's further. A bit like kicking straight to touch.
  12. Wholly Trinity

    Uninteresting Trivial Facts

    Wakefield's equatorial suburbs ☺ I used to like bananas until I had real bananas ripened on the plant. There's such a wide variety of shapes, sizes and flavours, but supermarkets seem to insist on the same old Cavendish cultivar from sunny Derbyshire. Again, picked unripe and shipped from the carribean, compared to others, they taste like polystyrene. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35131751
  13. Wholly Trinity

    Uninteresting Trivial Facts

    There's an avocado tree directly outside my office door. (out of season) You can't beat the sweet/nutty flavour of a fresh, ripe avocado. The problem is in the UK they're picked and imported massively under-ripe, so they're generally taseless (like bananas). If it's ripe it should be easy to indent the skin with your thumb and the stone/seed will probably rattle. The flesh should be soft and quite yellow. Top Tip: If it's not ripe yet, put it in a bag of dried rice for a day or two. Once it's ripe you can store it in the fridge for about a week. Once opened, if you want to save half, put the stone back in place to prevent it going black.
  14. Wholly Trinity

    Rugby Reloaded

    Already subscribed on cast box for android
  15. Wholly Trinity

    has anyone got a job for steve mcnamara?

    Replacement for Jon Wells on sky?