yanto

After 20 years on the continent and talking to guys from some of the clubs that have been named (and some who have turned down the offer) I am hearing what I would describe as guys I know to be sensible being sucked into a project that I would love to be successful but I still have big reservations about. I would hate to see some well meaning enthusiastic guys doing great development work getting burned. Going to sit this one out. ?

Yes just seen that. ?

Actually made contact with the group. Not for me until I see results and full details which are sketchy. Still can't get the math to add up. All team travel and accommodation will be covered. Round 1 Eight teams travel and accommodation Round 2 Four teams travel and accommodation. Semi finals Four teams travel and accommodation to Valencia Final Two teams travel and accommodation. Again Valencia Eighteen teams travel with a minimum of 20 personnel. That's 360 flights and 180 shared hotel rooms. Estimated / concervative outlay 108,000 euro!!!!!! Add on the flights for 56 draft players. Transport and team accommodation a cool estimate of 164,000 from experience in taking teams around Europe and knowing costs That's for a knock out cup of four rounds before the staging of the games. For a competition in 2021 involving 32 teams you can only guess at the costs. The guy is either very rich, has massive backers or.... Also say four draft players for eight weeks. The clubs, if they take the full quota, have to provided accommodation and keep them.Draft players only get their flights then they become the clubs responsibility So what costs? What allowence do you have to pay. No ones going to come from Brisbane or Atlanta if they have to pay their own way for eight to ten weeks Sorry guys still all sounds to good to be true. Personal note ** MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE shock when Rotterdam Pitbulls were named today ?

No more Northern European clubs after Brussels because its beneficial to the organisors to have clubs based in Eastern Europe and the mederterainian countries due to the cheaper costs. Trust me on this and clever thinking if I may say so. ? Understandable as a business . Also going to use the off season hotels/ cheaper air flights into Spain to fly clubs into play games in the first year cup competition. Expect to see at least four games involving none Spanish clubs held in or around Valencia ? . Just what I am digging up as I look further into how this will pan out.

Likes his tours does Stuart. ? Had his pleasure twice in the Netherlands. But of course what's goes on on tour stays on tour ?

Because I won't be funding it.I won't be paying 56,000 pound MINIMUM for 56 guys to go on holiday. As an agent I will be making money.. quite a bit of money.. from the project.

Wish I was an agent ..I reckon I could get 56 players (with commission on top) willing to do a five week holiday tourng Europe ,all expenses paid and one or two run outs on the field thrown in. Even CRL standard would rip it up in Valencia,Budapest or Dublin. Loads of contacts in CRL Group six Southern Highlands and Mcarthur, and South Coast Group seven. Have to get the black book out ?

Ok it looks like a knockout competition in 2021?? No groups..straight one game ..lose and your gone ??? So on December 1st 2020 they announce the draft,which according to their Twitter and Facebook accounts is aimed at Brisbane as the first city to attract these players ......up to five players for the lower ranked clubs . All the expense and travel to Europe for maybe ONE GAME !!!!! Confused ..really confused ...

link please ??

You tell me ? Apparently they are now naming clubs that have agreed to be part of this competition without disclosing the finer details to the clubs that have committed. I dont know your background or you involvement in club football but lets say you commit to a new competition then find out later you cant afford to see the season through then would you not say this damages the reputation of the competition and the game in general ?? OK thats your opinion and it seems you dont really care about any damage (if it fails) to the long term development of the game in Europe. A few hundred ?? More have put many hours and many many euros into taking the game forward on the continent but of course being stuck on the island..maybe even on the M62 this is of little concern to you.

So clubs are committing without knowing the costs. That is not good business. Dublin for example have to know if they can afford trips to Austria, Portugal or Spain then get lumped to go to Moldova, Norway and Hungary.. They also accept two or three draft players then are told they have to cover flights from Brisbane and pay for these draft players visas, accommodation and lodgings without knowing if they will get 1000 or 10,000 reimbursed. Woooo massive undertaking without any contracts or paper work signed do you not think. Would you commit without knowing the finer details???

Well I have done a bit of phone calling /messaging to guys who have a bit of knowledge about this, looking for more details. Good to have contacts in Europe ? I will not disclose the sources but the feed back is similar from them all. It seems details of final structure, draft system, costs to clubs, media, including the talked about TV contract, have yet to be confirmed to them. They are no wiser, despite committing themselves, than we are. Some surprises coming regarding the teams that have signed up.

Tis fun ? Never posted as much in TRL for years .

Found this from Dean Buchan on the internet . “The European Super League will not work at the moment and you’d probably be aware of the reasons why. In lots of European countries, rugby league doesn’t feature on the map. Look at the attendance, look at the participation. “If you suddenly jump up with 10, 20 clubs, you’re not suddenly going to be able to support a massive competition with huge infrastructure and costs that the working group is talking about.” “Do they actually have signed contracts, do they have investment in place, do they have a broadcast deal? And if they do, why does no-one in Europe know anything about it?” He is talking here about the proposed RLEF Super League. Erm hang on !!!!! "rugby league doesnt feature on the map" "attendances,participation" "Jump in with 10,20 clubs" "Huge infrastructure and costs" " why does no one in Europe know anything about it" I honestly thought he was talking about Euro XIII because in my eyes that is exactly what seems to be happening with his project . Strange very strange .

Just released on Facebook. Draft day announced as 1st December 2020 with 56 players to choose from. Also asking for expression of interest from womens teams for 2021.

OK lots of luddites have had plenty of opinions. Let's hear how and why people think this could be a success. Does anyone know who is going to run the proposed clubs in Portugal, Moldova and Austria for example. Knowing the Brussels set up very well I don't think they will be a problem and could actually be one of the favourites to take out the first final. If they get five experienced draft players they will be a strong side. ?

Always in rugby league mate. Best game in the world for shooting itself in the foot again and again. ?

For you to throw a comment about like that may be disrespectful to the guy who you know nothing about, apart from his name on this forum. Some people may have that experience and more. Some people may have actually set up clubs, competitions and national sides. Some people may have experience with bringing in Kiwis and Aussies to play in Europe. (Proposed draft players??) Some people may have experience in the working of visas, embassies and working permits, even inside Europe never mind draft players from overseas. Some people may have organised travel, accommodation, meals, training venues, playing venues etc for incoming and outgoing teams and officials. Some people may have attracted sponsors, backers even TV coverage. Some people may actually surprise you what they have done when they are not sitting behind a keyboard. Some people may know that it takes more than money, pins in maps and loads of enthusiasm to turn ideas into reality and more importantly sustain and grow their plans. Look no further than failures of expansion in the pro game in the UK for example. I watch with interest and again wish them well.

Over 15,000 in Tblisi when the Dutch played the world cup qualifier there in 2006.

Don't think I ever said it is going to be a disaster. I have said I am watching with interest and good luck to them.

Maybe some people, and the game in Europe, will lose something that has taken thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of euros to get to were we are today if this plan fails. As a rugby league fan even you wouldn't wish that? Its nothing to do with personal gain, anyone involved over the past twenty years is well out of pocket. Its about whats best for the game. Learning from past experiences and other groups trying to build something without the full support of the whole of the RLEF membership, it usually doesn't end well and the fall out can take a long long time to repair. The guy behind this has already failed to deliver on one of his projects yet is now proposing to bring in 56 draft players and set up clubs in places such as Moldova, Portugal and Austria to enter a Euro wide competition that has finance in place and TV contract signed. Even Catalans or Toronto couldn't achieve TV contracts yet an amateur competition with clubs not yet in place has done this!!! It is an amazing achievement and as I said if they pull it off its the greatest thing ever to happen to the sport. As for my "concern" not "really achieving a lot" I think I have achieved enough in 40 years service to be able to voice my concerns on a rugby league forum.

"Caution" because the fall out IF this venture fails could have a lasting effect on any future development in Europe. Its not about one club on the other side of the Atlantic wanting to join an established competition, its about over 20 years of hard work, sweat, tears oh and MONEY spent by a lot of guys being undone, IMHO, by an over ambitious plan. Moldova Portugal, Austria... 56 draft players..!!! IF the numbers add up and the business plan is sound then what concerns me is why some of the more established continental league playing nations are still unsure and have publicly stated they will not enter clubs. They will have seen the proposals, added up the math and the potential of the competition yet are still not convinced it is in their best interests So your going to plant 2-5 Draft players in Austria for example and say " there you go get another 17 guys to make a squad. We will find some administrators to run the club then I expect you to be ready to launch a new club,find a venue, sponsors, players. Promote yourselves into the community. Build up a fan base and be ready to take part in a euro wide competition in 12 month's time.Then replicate this four or five times. !!! That is a massive undertaking. Why has it not been possible to do this before? It takes years of development on the ground knowing the culture of each country. Building bases and structures. I can't think of any other sport that has tried to plant artificial teams from an unknown sport into seven or eight countries, all at once, with no or very little knowledge of the sport in said countries and succeeded. That seems to be the plan. Failure could see European RL contract to the three or four nations of 20 years ago as people walk away disillusioned. Look at Georgia as an example. Sucess would be one of biggest.. NO THE biggest.. achievements in the history of the game. Serious I am very very interested in watching this unfold and again good luck and I wish them well.

More from Twitter. "Due to the competiton being increased to 16 teams, the Draft system has been extended from 36 to 56 players. Each team will receive 2-5 Draft picks based on their squad strength. What do you think?" 56 draft players??? Where are these guys coming from.?? Teams from Portugal, Moldova and Austria? Not only are they setting up a new competition but are promising teams in nations with no League footprint at all. Amazing!!!

OK so you are talking about a venture that may or may not be viable and yet your knocking guys like myself who are treading with caution and not being blinded by a few media releases!!!!! People are asking questions, putting over opinion yet are labelled luddites . How typically Rugby League ? Guess you ain't been around long enough to witness the damage to the game various other ventures that "have not been viable" have caused. Its not the first time Italy have promised great things that didn't come to fruition. The Greek tragedy (like that ?) World Rugby League... All grand plans with little substance. Even this guy at Valencia promised a big game last year that didn't happen. That should be enough to say " hang on let's hear more about this new competition please" . Serbia have been one of the leading nations regarding European development over the past ten years. Within their organisation they have Jovan Vujosevic and Colin Kleyweg, two important members of the RLEF. Both full of great vision on how to promote and improve the game on the continent. Red Star aligned themselves with the world famous football club and entered the challenge Cup to raise awareness. The Serbia RL livestream games and are very active on social media. Serbia TV stations show the NRL and Super League. Serbia were behind innovations like the European under 19 championships and the Balkan League. They have been on the brink of qualifying for the world cup more than once. They have imported a few top coaches and experienced league players to improve standards. Have a history of the game stretching back to the 1950's.They are very active in trying to push the game forward. Now after all this building, development and promotion, at a steady pace, show me crowds flocking to watch RL in Belgrade. Show me the local (or international) companies throwing money at the game. Show me the domestic Serbian TV stations offering big money to broadcast domestic or international games on TV. Show me players rushing to sign for Serbian clubs. Show me the success of a well planned and initially well executed Balkan League. In reality it just is not that simple. If the guys behind this project are thinking, like you, that the game can sell just because its "TGG" and they just have to show it and people will go WOW and flock to support it, then they are in for a rude and very expensive wake up call. I have doubts about its viability. Even at minimum costs its a very expensive and ambitious venture. If you also think it "may not be viable" then surely the energy, enthusiasm and finance these guys are promising could be directed at a more localised development plan rather than going European wide from the off. Substantial growth or boom and bust???? But hey as I said, good luck to them, live the dream ?

Luddites ? NedBel.. Netherlands/Belgium competition lasted one season due to costs and travel. Balkans League Two (or was it three) seasons due to costs and travel. I keep repeating, unless the guys behind this venture have a massive backer or three and /or TV deal, then I and many other "Luddites" can't see how it can be viable. Can you honestly, hand in heart, believe a level of football lower than UK local leagues can attract money to run a European wide competition then sustain and grow it, when the money machine that is the NFL pulled out of Europe due to losing money hand over fist. I don't think you realise the cost of travel and accommodation in Europe and that's before they start paying draft players, wherever they are coming from, or how insignificant the game is on the continent ?? Anyway if the guys have a few million quid spare and a sound business plan then I wish them all the success in the world but until this is still around (and growing) in five years time I will be a European Luddite.