RP London

i agree with that.. although cas and wakefield are under threat becuase they cannot get things sorted in the alloted time given that other clubs have been able to.. and they really should have got up there by now really.. other clubs that are at a similar stage have managed it or have other strengths..

it doesnt matter if they are higher away from the stoop.. its all about relativity.. are they higher so the rent is the same or less.. what about sponsorship etc.. not only that but if we say went to orient it is an area the club hasnever been to before so you have no "always away from the stoop" to go on. 1. i dont think your right "it doesnt wash with londoners" i dont think it matters that much to be honest there is more to the issues of popularity and fans though gates than that IMHO.. however i would still stick with a more localised name 2. depends on the cost of opening the full stadium, staff numbers etc compared to the number thorugh hte gate.. if the cost is not outweighed by the increase in bums on seats then it would be idiotic in the extreme to do this. 3. stupid not to no one would stop this 4. IMHO this is your little pet hate but it bothers no one else and has no effect on anyone.. the kids we took never gave a sh*t 5. depends on what gets most people through the gates but i am sure the club would always pick he best kick off time they can have with regards to what the club whos ground it is is willing for them to have, the police are happy with etc etc..

i've filled in quite few of those questionaires.. think there was a period i felt like i was doing one a week.. probably one every month at the moment give or take.

is that it then? are no other clubs going to sign anyone for next year? is the transfer window firmly shut? FFS! so many other clubs have players to buy.. Leeds have had a dreadful season but are still there or thereabouts and i wouldnt rule them out getting it together next season.. Sains under a new coach could well get their act together Bradford may well sort themselves out with potter after what he did with catalans i wouldnt rule anything out.. they are not a bad team they just cant seem to play together.. Warrington may well get a couple of nie signings, they are doing pretty well at the moment and nother year playing like this and who knows.. there will always be abolter as well.. Wigan have signed 3 players.. they will be letting 4 possibly go from their foreign list.. so how will these 3 fit in.. will they be disruptive to the dressing room, how will they gel? they may get on with Mcguire but will they get on with the other players.. will they be fit or get season ending injuries in the first match? the signings Bradford made this season made people stand up then they did nowt.. same with Warrington over the season past.. 3 great signing do not necessrily mae a championship.. that is what people are saying..

would crusader have got less points? not sure if they would have or if they would have ended on the same. yes true i agree that the liscence grades are there for this.. i should rephrase my post to "as long as the 14 with the highest liscnece grade get in" your right that there should be a certain amount of flexibility including weighting on certain aspects ie aspects that can be fixed quicker in one club that those tha are letting down another club etc to a certain extent i expect that widnes could finnish equal with acouple of the bottom graded clubs in SL and the deciding factor being "you've had 3 years to sort all this out and you failed lets let someone else have a go".. i could see a few go on this matter as well if they arent careful.

problem is as always.. its a lot of "coulds" and "i believes" and "i'm sure" with no real basis except what you think/hope could happen.. with money being a major worry can clubs really risk a higher rent for an "i hope" bigger crowd etc? there has to be a lot of things which include the club who owns the ground being actually interested and the exact raise in rent vs rise in crowds vs rise in other income etc.. will more sponsors come on board, will you lose some sponsors becuase of the move, more corporate will any corpoate be lost etc etc.. so much more thanjust crowds have to be thought of in the move.

hes got a point bowes... you want the RFL to step in but the RFL encouraged essex in before they wanted to go in from my understanding... there was a lot behind the rise in numbers including birmingham and essex ealrier than the original RFL plan and perhas the plans of the clubs.. its a complicated scenrio but to blame essex and anyone connected with it for all of this is way off the mark. (and off topic for that matter)

NIMBY

yes it has but times are changing and they are changing fast.. our company has survived for 125 years but we are quite different to what we were then and we are having to make some quite large changes to stay competetive.. football hasnever been so strong RU is getting stronger Cricket has been around a lot longer and yet is struggling now hugley on te county stage hence the introduction of one of hte most radical changes to any sport certainly since 1995's change to summer and probably since the split of the two Rugby codes.. This is a very fair system.. you have to meet certain criteriaor you just dont stand chance.. those teams in it that done meet it are waking a tight rope.. when you get in it you have 3 years safety to get going without the risk of relegation so making it easer to plan... yes i can hear people saying "i bet teams wont get thrown out for not meeting th criteria".. one answer.. shall we wait and see? you cant judge something on presupposed suppositions.. remembering also that it is a graded system.. as long as the top 14 with the highest points total are in then surel we cant ask for a much fairer system. P&R is hardly fair either.. you can spend your way into the top flight by getting ino huge debt.. go bust and drop down with a 10 poitn pentaly but nowt else and then do it all over again.. while cubs try to stay in the bounds of their income and do feck all.. thats hardly fair. at the moment we have to give it more time.. as has been mentioned the clubs in CCh are far too far off being able to opoen up P&R as was proved in the las 5-10 years up down updown same teams.. it needs to pick them up as well.. lets see what happen in the next round... if people get kicked out, if they pick the right ones to enter etc.. and see if the system of picking is working then rather than scrap it after one round of appointments.

bit in bold. i have another "theory" on that.. yes the debt etc may be putting people off but ifi was looking at it as a serious investor wanting to see it work to turn me a nice tidy sum rather than someone investing in the club becuase i love RL and want to see it work in London becuase its RL then i would be looking at it but doing sweet FAabout it at the moment.. It would cos a lot to buy and to put right.. however, the cost will be coming down the more uncertain things get, with the economy doing what it is doing adn the uncertainty about football clubs being able to pay the bills i would be holidng my horses for 6 months to ayear when a few more clubs get shaky and either invest in those or buy quins for a nock down panic sell fee, have already negotatied with a cash strapped football club near the edge and get it shifted and linked in.. there may be many interested but timing wise keeping well away to keep watching the price and other issues go down and down.. any interest measn the prioce would steady/go up.. on another note if they were to move to Orients ground then why not "Eastern Orient" or "London Orient" play in the quins away shirt from this year which is a fantastic shirt... the Orient name is unique and fantastic in itself .. i am not sure if i would chuck london back in the name as i dont believe it does anything, a smaller catchement ala the sydney names is better IMO. (if they moved to the city i would then have london city but that obviously wont happen). IF orient ere happy for quins to move in, and were no charging rediculous rent etc then it would have to be looked at as there really arent many options available.. but i do like the idea of trying to buy into something smaller, get funding to build it up and the RFL to give them time on the criteria to get it done right.

i actually think this is a very good use of the system.. it wasnt bad enough to get a full on fieldset of punisments that could have been meeted out but was worth having another look at from different angles to see what was actually in it, how late etc talking to/letter/fine/game ban etc but it was such a 50/50 that to punish the team on the feld too harshly would have been wrong IMO

no i agree.. thas the annoying thing.. there are ways to help and solve the issues but i cant see it happening.. I'm ignoring Lobby;'s post although good becuase of the little dig/comment bit with P&R..

its also not difficult not to put details on that give it away that day and just put spoiler in the thread subtitle.. i have come on a few times on a friday to catch up with acouple of conversations or to check up on whether people are able to play us or not but with a game from a thursday night on record and found the score out.. which is annoying, and its becuase it is the last threadto be contributed to so the higlighed thread on the front page.. while clicking on "new messages"

that seems to be a problem IMO with londo especially the areas that we would love RL to be.. the grounds are either too big or too small.. it would be a good move if Quins could buy into one though and the RFL helped them financially to build it up to scratch if they couldnt get the money aother way.. that would mean a good base, in a good area that they owned etc.. making them a more valuable "asset" for people to buy into.

i would say the hardest things to find are the grateful landlords and reasonable rents.. and of course location.. location wise QPR or Fulhm would be fatastic as would be really easy for people to get to frommost parts of london but i would be very suprised to see that happen.. its a very hard thing to do and get right which is why it isnt happenin at the moment.. oh so it was you who would come down and sully the great street of blackheath i loved it there and only moved out as i couldnt afford to buy a flat in the area so moved to whitechapel instead.. Zero degrees was fantastic, though sometimes for comedy value

no not been to that one to be honest.. i would be surpised if it were suitable but it would be an interesting option if they could easily get it up to it..

are you starting to see the error of your ways now that they are in black and white? youd have only found 13 blokes running around a park anyway it was never, still isnt, real rugby and you wouldnt have been a true supporter anyway.. grab a grannie at least would have got results.. possibly.. and you wouldnt have ended up moderating this site.. you may have moderated an altogether different site!

jesus i didnt realise how close to the truth futtocks was.. you were a northerner going down south and your first thought was.. right i have the arsenal ofthe british army at my disposal now i'll teach those southerners who think they can start up clubs in the south a lesson... where are they? are they in range? fire!!!!

shame for london IMO... will be interesting to see who they bring in to replace him.. i dont think he should have been playing at hooker for most of the season and andy ellis can replace him there but who is going to back up 7?

issues for me: 1 i dont think it would make any difference 2 the actual wording of it and tone is off IMHO: eg: No other sport with a2-3 teir league system has it.. the NRL do, do they have a 2-3 teir system... arguably yes there are other clubs below the NRL who are there and playing in league below and they can apply when franchises and liscences are up for grabs.. Northern Irish Football has a system where there is a mix of liscencing and P&R similar to what we have but working slightly diffrently.. those are 2 off the top ofmy head. Not only that but the RFL can happily turn around and say 1. the aim is to have a larger franchised super league including most of the other teirs but it is a gradua process, would you rather wait 5 years for when your club us ready to step up or step up now and go bust? they have a long term plan the wording is very short term. 2. they dont care if no one esle does it, when the first sport in america had conferences did people say, you cant do that no one else does.. maybe but they were proved wrong it does work there.. just becuase it doesnt work in any other sport doesnt mean it wont work here for this sport. there is not only one way to bring people back to the game.. for the last god knows how long there has been p&r ad the crowds have not been flocking to the grounds so why would bringing it back now suddenly see 3-4000 come through the doors.. its a non argument.. there are many ways to bring them back and that is needed to be done.. The crowds falling away due to liscencing.. the crowds hae been falling away a that level for years.. liscencing is not the issue apathy is and that was there before this all happened. 3. even if i agreed with your points on liscencing your 2nd point IMHO is daft.. the game has to expand, they have got it wrong int he past but as long as they learn from this then this is a good thing and expansion is important for the good of the clubs in the M62 corridor as well.. 4. i dont actually agree with either of the points and the arguments IMO have too many holes in them. its a non starter for mine.

i hope they are the away kit options.. or does someone have a testimonial next year?

Dallas Johnson has struggled in a struggling side with a coach who doesnt seem to know his ###### from his elbow to be fair.. to compare that to Hoffman who will be playing in a strong team with a coach that knows how to bring the best out of him is unfair IMHO. Hoffman should succeed.. if he does not he will be arguably a bigger flop than Johnson who could have played his best RL ever and still be looking a bit rubbish.. offlaods only work if people are there, big tackles only work if you follow it up with another 4 etc etc.. Finch.. will do a job, it is a shame there isnt ayoungster to jump in here but i would rather thake him than riddell if i were a wigan fan, i think he will add more and is a better fit into the Leuluia (sp) tomkins mix if tommy moves to 9.. lima.. again will do a job, and will hopefully help to bring on some newere prop forwards.. the youngsters may well be a couple of years away from becoming props, farrell etc are second rows at the moment size wise and need ot bulk up.. getting someone like Lima will help give them the year or so to do this and learn off him.. he has a 3 year contract but by the 3rd year would expect him to be coming off the bench in a few games but not much more as the other payers come thorugh.. better they learn off him than Coley FFS!

problem with football clubs is that they are not always looking for more income.. they are looking for more profit.. opening up the ground for RL in the summer also costs money so the income has to outweigh these costs.. that means taking gate money, taking bar profits, or charging very high rent.. maybe too high for the club to stomach.. they need the summer to sort the pitch out etc as well so at some point the RL team will have to go on the road.. i would love to see them back at the valley, its the best ground outside of zone 1 and 2 which isnt actually that far away and easily accesible a few stops down from london bridge and waterloo (would only be annoyed as i would have loved it there when i lived in blackheath and my bro lived in charlton! but no they were at griffin bloody park then!) MK is not a bad idea i see how it could work well and how it could grow.. the football club is doing ok but notpulling up any trees so i dont see that being that big an issue and not only that but again this sport is played at a different time so the two could actually have quite a nice tie up.. a small overlap period yes but not major and the two could live quite happily side by side.. it would just be sad to see the London club leave london really IMO

problem is with the little acorns dity is that most of them dont grow at all.. A large olympic stadium would be a bad move IMO... MK may just work, Oxford may well be better though.

not sure i think ireland has more potential for pro sport than scotlad but who knows really.. to be fair i dont think its anyones pla to have 4-6b games forever no matter what they do.. its not a choice of "winter or 4-6 in the summer" its more a case of how to buiold the games in the best way.. i dont know if winter is that thugh