Damien

Absolutely. They needed two scores and that was a gimme to get them within one converted try.

Absolutely shocking wasnt it.

It was funny when he said they had to score because they wouldn't get near Saints line again, with over 15 minutes left!

The Premiership regularly got around 35k at Old Trafford, considerably more than the Regal Trophy normally got, and was shown on Sky. If that was a 3rd or 4th rate cup then the game would kill for it now. Instead people now get excited about 35k for 3 games at Magic. Of course FPTP is fairer. A league system in which every game counts equally over the course of a season is certainly fairer than one in which an entire season rests on one game at a particular moment in time. I'm happy to agree to disagree as there is little point in going round in circles.

Definite double movement

Now, now, no one is that bad.

I think Salford will be happy enough to be going in at half time only 7 down. Saints started like a house on fire with plenty of intensity and it could have got messy for Salford but they managed to hang in well. Saints look like a completely different team to what we have seen in recent weeks.

Players were getting cards earlier in the season for making contact with the head like that. The tackler has a duty of care not to make contact with the head, accidental or not. Welsby very obviously did.

High tackle though and arguably careless too.

Great line that from Watkins.

Thats a shocker from Knowles. Should be a sending off for me.

I love summer rugby but there have been negative unforeseen consequences. One of the huge perceived benefits was meant to be both hemispheres playing at the same time and this allowing for more international club and country games. This has just never materialised and it seems to have made these issues worse, not better.

Obviously not but that is not the reason we introduced play offs and is certainly not the reason we keep them. If you actually read posts it would be quite obvious that people do not advocate FPTP with an uneven fixture list.

Absolutely none of that makes any sense at all.

Strong start from Saints.

The trouble is geography and a place for it in the calendar (and that is before you get to the reluctance of NRL clubs). I simply do not see how such a tournament is possible to any meaningful degree without taking the place of internationals. RU and Football international club tournaments take place inside the domestic season, that just is never going to happen in RL. Even what we do get is shoehorned in preseason for NRL clubs which immediately devalues it. We have essentially one international window and even struggle to get internationals played in that.

This.

Just to pick up on these two points in bold. I simply don't see how you can complain about damp squib and dead rubbers galore under FPTP when that is what we consistently see under the play offs to a far greater extent. Under the old FPTP system teams still kept going to qualify for the Premiership as per now and tried to qualify in the top 8. We also had 2 or 3 teams relegated so more teams battling to avoid relegation. There was far more to play for than now. Then you essentially admit the first 10 rounds under the play offs were a complete waste of time, that never happened under FPTP. There is also nothing contrived about a league where everyone plays each other twice with the team that finishes top being Champions.

Thats why I was asking are there any more details!

Have you not heard any interview with Wigan players this season, such as the one with Leuluai last night, where they credit Peet and lavishly praise all the improvements he has made? It is also noticeably different that similar interviews when Lam was there. It is very clear that Lam did a poor job at Wigan and that the players thought so too. No amount of revisionism on your part, just because Lam is now at Leigh, will change that.

Yes when we had Yorkshire and Lancashire leagues and teams played those from their own county more often. The moment we went to a divisional structure they were scrapped and remained that way for 23 years as they served no purpose. SL did not introduce play offs for the same historical reasons as you keep quoting, they were simply copying the NRL. Now yes, we now have loop fixtures and Magic, but these are not the reasons we now have play offs and these reasons could easily disappear overnight if so desired.

The last page or so sums I think the play offs are contrived as well. Even those that completely support the play offs don't want certain places rewarded because they don't deserve it, are mid table, haven't won enough games etc. It's really not that far a leap to then think that 2nd, 3rd or 4th don't deserve to be Champions either. Conversely why stop at 6, why not 8 if its just to keep things interesting for as many teams as possible? It's like most want a system that ultimately weights it for 1 and 2 to get to the final anyway so why not just have 1 v 2?

This essentially the current system once we get the winners of 3 v 6 then 4 v 5.

But what is the point of finishing higher than 4th? Yes, home advantage but that's hardly a huge thing. At least the top 5 McIntyre system gives a proper advantage and weighting for league position.

Thats not the point though. What you are citing is essentially a team winning a Challenge Cup quarter final and then semi final against two good teams. The issue is the 27 rounds leading up to that.