Dave T

I do always think you miss the point about the Wire promotional activity. We've been lively and relatively sharp in this area for the last few years (in RL terms) and our crowds have been good. We've done pretty much zip this year and crowds are well down. It shows that we need to work hard to be getting that 10 to 12k average, and if we drop the ball on it we soon drop down to a core of 7.5k to 8k.

Of course, that is a challenge for all sports, and it's why standing still is going backwards, and we know that RL is bad at fan engagement and filling that leaky bucket. I do agree and fear for us around some of the newer versions of sports and women's sport, I think they are eating into our audience. All this is happening whatever we do.

This is just part of life. People move in and out of things and I expect people were saying these things throughout the history of RL, probably just in the pub instead. I always think time is valuable, people should do what suits them and their life, loyalty to a hobby you don't enjoy is a waste of time in my book. I love RL, but I have a different relationship with it than I did 30 years ago, or 20 years ago. It's an opportunity to catch up with friends and family and spend quality time with my daughter and wife.

Williams has had a few good games for us, but in reality, he ain't gonna boss games when your pack is doing nowt. Against Wigan, Williams was our biggest metre maker iirc, when you are relying kn your half for the yards, it sort of shows the inbalance if the team.

I think sometimes it can be looked at a little more simply. I think there are two key reasons we are having a poor season. Firstly, our recruitment just hasn't worked this year. Losing a coupke of big forwards and not replacing them with the quality needed is costing us. Holmes is a bad signing and tbh identikit to Hughes and J Clark - very lacklustre really. The balance just isn't there. Secondly, we've had a bad run with injuries, probably the worst we have had as a club for quite a few years. You can sometimes handle these if your core is playing well, but when in a poor run of form and then you have different halves, fullback, three quarters each week it makes the recovery much more difficult. I think there is the added challenge that whilst our homegrown development is improving, it isn't good enough for us to rely on yet. I think the challenges are less about Powell, I don't see any reason to panic on that front yet. The next 6m recruitment is crucial, we have some real aging players and if we move them on like Hill, we need to properly replace them. For all the criticism the likes of Williams will get, he isn't anywhere near being the main problem.

In the process of scoring a try a player in possession must not promote the ball from the position the ball has been grounded. If the momentum of the player in possession carries him into the opponents in goal area, it will not be a double movement if the ball would have finished over the goal line regardless of any subsequent movement of the ball or the arm carrying the ball. Yes, it looks like para 2 covers that. I'm not sure if that's changed because there has certainly been ones in the past where they have only given it if he has slid over without a 2nd movement.

I agree with your point, I just think it's a waste of time and it fuels the fans being negative about the refs and we end up in a spiral.

I'm not a fan of coaches moaning at the refs, but I'd be surprised if there was a correlation with moaning in interviews and not winning things. Some of the most successful coaches in sport are the biggest whingers.

I'll just have a beer and a pulled pork roll in the garden mate with the family. Better things to focus on.

It is what it is and I won't moan about referees, but I am glad I'm not in my own.

That is a double movement. There shouldnt really a debate around that. Hes allowed to slide over, not make a 2nd movement.

Enjoying a beer, watching on TV with a family party in the garden mate. Good times, irrespective of the 2nd half.

Great GP finish in the Gold Coast game!

Yup, all day drinking at a sports events brings its problems, cricket and horse racing and the likes also have some issues with it.

Jeez, calm down

Very good

Sounds like a little trouble in the ground last night. Seems to have been a few incidents with crowds this year. Just seen a video and it's unfortunate as looks like only one or two people being a-holes but it looks far worse in a stadium as people scatter. Unfortunately it is what happens with Magic and its a reason I've been put off, particularly Newcastle.

I do think part of the issue that we have with the England RL logo is that it doesn't lend itself too well to leisure wear. The main logo is cheap and too sporty for me personally, so I am a fan of the stripped back version.

It's clear this is an Oxen approach, we get our weekly rants about Leeds merch on here too. I've always been bored by the basic range of kit, polo shirt, training T and a Hoodie. If I go on the site now there are plenty of things that would appeal to me.

But they aren't calling the team the lions. Its a name for a range of clothes, which tbh goes no further than the email (I can't see mention of it on the shop), and takes its name from the lion head being front and centre. When yiu ask who it is aimed at, I think it is quite clear where this can appeal. Firstly to a segment of RL fans brought uo with GB as the team, their national team has been represented by a lion. Many people still believe England should have just used the GB lion logo (I disagree). Secondly, general England sports fans identify the Lion logo with England. Thirdly, fans, like me who are not keen on the England logo. This range looks far classier than the pointy shield logo, and would make me far likelier to pick up a training t-shirt or two.

But they are different things. Sales strategy and quality is one thing, but you always tell us that brand is not about logo. I have no issue with trying to flood the market and giving consumers choice. I generally find the range of stuff clubs have depressing. England has always been really poor on this, you could get a real basic range that could have been designed by any of us as it was just classic, at least there is choice of different stuff now. The England FA stuff has a huge range and is a right mish-mash of styles. I think we need to be a little less po-faced about merchandise (accepting the point about quality - which I haven't personally witnessed).

Of course the lion plays a prominent part for Eng, its on the badge and has been for the vast majority of our history. They are not changing the name of the team, they have just named a range of clothes.

I do think some of you are over thinking it. It's some clothes that people can buy if they want. The England badge has Lions on it, people get the link to Lions with the football and cricket teams also using them. They are using the head off the lion that is on the badge. I do understand the complaints about quality, although my Hoodie and hat have been very good quality (not sure if made by Oxen themselves). I don't understand complaints about too many t-shirts being released. Other sports I follow have more clothes launches than Asos.

I don't have any issue with a wide range of training gear. The more choice the better as far as I'm concerned, if I don't like something I won't get it. The lion head does come directly from the lion badge, so it is on brand.

https://www.facebook.com/10295882211/posts/10158681118387212/ They posted the list 20hrs ago. I don't really understand the obsession with alphabetical order. We have squad numbers, it is far easier to scan a squad list with numbers to spot who's in and out. When it is alphabetical it doesn't feel natural in a rugby sense at all and is little help. It feels like publishing these lists is a tick box rather than anything overly useful for fans.