Dave T

It was common for C4 to go as low as the 200-300k+ band IIRC. The peak was a bit higher. Sky is probably 150k standard, with 200k+ a strong performance. From memory, we got over 500k for the Saints v Salford Grand Final, which had a clear run, no competition that night which was a rarity. 350k-400k would be a good result for Grand Final. I think BBC Cup games get between 650k to 1m for big games.

Whilst I do think regularity is important, it does feel like 25(ish) live RL games a year on TV does mean that we will get load of coverage, so maybe not 100% regular, but plenty of presence. That is absolutely positive

Agreed - that was meant to come out more strongly in my para about platform. The IPlayer and website platforms are far, far superior to anything that other providers offer. It will be interesting to see viewing figures, as they weren't huge on C4.

This is clearly good news, don't take this as major criticism of the deal, but in reality, we will have pretty much the same amount of live games on terrestrial TV as last year, and we will have less hours overall as the SLS has gone. 2023 - mainstream tv Bbc 7 cup games BBC 3 internationals BBC x 32 Highlights shows C4 10 Live SL Other (BBC streaming cup games 4 or so) 2024 - mainstream tv BBC - 5 cup games BBC 3 internationals BBC 10 live SL Other (BBC streaming 5 SL, and 3 Cup games or so) So I'm not sure this is the revolutionary deal some may think, certainly not as big as the others announced so far. I do think the benefits come in the form of the BBC platform having more live content overall will hopefully lead to increased regularity and promotion that comes with it. Plus the online platform, if done well could be a great asset. I think overall we have a brilliant TV setup, genuinely revolutionary, but I think the biggest change here is the Sky and SL+ stuff.

Yes, that's what the 2nd half of my post refers to. I don't think I've watched an SLS for years.

The TV hours probably are reducing as you say. Looks like the cup has seen a reduction, SLS gone and we did used to have playoff highlights already. But, the BBC will now show c20-23 live games of RL across their platforms, plus internationals if we stage them, so that can't be sniffed at. I suppose live games are the premium stuff.

I don't personally think this is the best decision tbh, but I can understand why others would appreciate this decision, and I can understand the sport wanting to honour Rob.

Jeez, this went South quickly. IMO it's been a superbly positive build up to the season.

Yeah, I also think there was something at the start that only grade b clubs would be assessed annually, but I believe this was changed early on.

Yes, this is the only point that I can find on this. Also, if the principle is to always have the best ranked teams, it makes no sense to offer protection for a team even if their ranking plummets.

Thanks - do you have a link that confirms this, as I can't find a single thing that describes it as you do? Not saying its wrong, but there is nothing written. The packs say that the gradings are released at the end of each year and the makeup of SL based on that. SL will be made up of 12 (minus the A grade clubs, plus the highest ranked B clubs). But let's say, when the rankings are released at the end of 2025 for 2026, and say, Hull have dropped to a Grade B, behind 13 clubs, why would they be given a place in SL? I can't find any mention of a 12m buffer.

Yeah, I'm surprised this one hasn't come up before in Oz, although I wonder if it due to worse floodlights at certain places.

Seems to have been a while since we announced a proper new sponsor, this is absolutely welcome. NOt sure I've ever had this tbh, like Dunbar, I'll be sure to give it a try.

To be fair, we're just falling in line with our masters from Down Under.

Yeah, I prefer the red and white together. The 20m line is a prominent line on an RL pitch, I'm not mad sure there is a reason for changing it from white to red after almost 130 years.

I still get angry about the shambles that was the RLWC in 2022. Whilst there was plenty of good elements to it, ultimately, the events were rubbish. The 6N game was on tv last night as I was going about my business, and the effort with light shows, pyro, flames etc to build up the atmosphere in that stadium in advance of the match was night and day compared to anything we put on. People are dismissive of this stuff, but they could sell that stadium out twice over, yet they still put on a show for customers. We did everything as cheap as possible. And whilst people will point to cost of delays, we've been like this for years. The missed opportunity from that tournament is a crying shame. The legacy is that we have retracted.

Yeah, I can't disagree with that, and I suspect had we won the first test in 2020 (in an alternate universe) we'd have sold Spurs out for the 3rd test. I think where it does look like those audiences were probably about right and not massively limited by capacities, was that 1 year after that Jonathan Davies try at Wembley we opened the World Cup with only 40k in versus the Aussies at Wembley.

Aye, the challenge cup has been all over the place to be fair. I agree on your last para, the biggest issue with the international game right now imo is that we aren't building on the good work of the last 20 years. The Four Nations was generally great and should now have grown to be even better, the World Cups are great, and things like Pacific Nations and Eur Nations cups really should be growing in their own right. I think the demand is clearly there, Australia has had half decent crowds when done properly, same with Kiwis, Tonga and Samoa are bright sparks, we can get a good crowd in England, France ain't bad. It is conscious decisions that have thrown away a lot of the good work.

It's your final paragraph that I disagree with. What we lost was the county cups and regal trophy which were often treated with disdain by the BBC. But the Challenge Cup has never been off the BBC, that's consistent. And whilst the late 90s was a bit messy, my understanding is that the BBC has always either shown internationals live or extended highlights. I don't think there has been a year where the BBC haven't shown international RL in the Autumn.

Whilst that is true, the size of the Wembley crowd does suggest that it's unlikely we'd have got masses more at OT or ER even if possible. None of my comments are to play down what we did in the 90s, we just can't ignore the good crowds we have had since then. Taking away the farce of what is happening right now, the 00s and 10s were pretty decent periods for international growth. For some reason we #### about with it though instead of keep going.

Sort of. RL always maintained a terrestrial TV presence, and pretty much always on the BBC. Even for the decade or so that internationals were on Sky, the 2000 World Cup still had presence on the BBC and the BBC always had extensive highlights of internationals. I don't think we were anywhere near as hidden as people make out.

The problem is that the evidence isn't there that we have lost fans at international level. The OP refers to a game against the biggest nation in the World that actually had 43k in. We got that sized crowd versus Samoa in 2022, smashed that versus the Kiwis in 2013, and beat that versus the Kiwis in 2015/6 IIRC.

With hindsight, starting our World Cup with a game at Twickenham, we got everything we deserved.

So in effect we wouldn't always have the top 12 ranked clubs in SL?

We should also include the 00's, GB beat the Aussies in 2001, 2004 and 2006.