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The first decision seem to be "what's the cheapest venue we can get" as opposed to where can we make this the biggest and best event. That's what happens with after thoughts.

Picking on bloody Leigh again, you guys are all the same. It's the train station thing isn't it?

Is there a reason why Scotland can't play in Scotland? Is RL banned in Scotland?

Presumably there are large ex-pat Jamaican and Scottish communities in Featherstone...

I find these kind of replies pathetic to be honest and you are a better poster than that. The RFL is a professional organisation with full time staff. It is certainly not a fans job to do their job for them for free. Fans are customers who need to be persuaded to buy into an event, maybe you and the RFL should remember that. There is no excuse for a Jamaica v Scotland match being at Fev. None at all. It's a village with a population of 15k. Jamaica got over 7k v England Knights at Headingley. Leeds Beckett have used Headingley for goodness sake, it's not that expensive but infinitely more prestigious and based in a major city.

You've hit the nail right on the head there Harry. Instead of asking how to create something which can attract the audience Sky wants to justify them continuing to pay to televise the sport, the administrators are instead asking how to make do with the reduced amount of money they've been given. I suspect that this is most likely because they (and the administrators who came before them in the sport) have accepted that RL is the poor cousin of other sports and therefore simply has to make to do with whatever it can get and cut its cloth to suit. In view of that, I suggest that the end will come in two years when Sky pulls out because they don't have a clue how to attract the audience Sky wants.

The more I think about this, the more stupid I think it is. No offence to Fev - been there loads of times and thoroughly enjoyed each visit to Post Office Road - but it's hardly a vibrant tourist/party destination. These games should be an advert for next year's World Cup for heaven's sake. Almost like a free hit to raise the profile of the teams involved - "if you enjoyed this then we've got a World Cup next year". It beggars belief that anybody involved at the RFL or with the teams involved would think playing at Fev would be a good idea.

Exactly this. If you're not going to bother making these things in to an event then just don't bother. It just undermines the international game.

Awaits France v England at Leigh and Wales v Ireland at some small rugby union club house in central Wales.

You’re just strawmanning now. Next year will be different, for a start the clubs will be able to sell season tickets for a full season, threat of games being cancelled through covid should be over, games will be played on normal days not all over the place. Thats not saying everything is fine that’s just stating the facts. The game needs to do more to attract fans but that doesn’t mean its dying or about yo die.

Well, if you need a working definition of doing the least possible so you can pretend you’ve tried ...

I no longer have a club to support. I've stopped watching the NRL because of their behaviour re the RLWC. And if this ridiculous schedule comes to pass I won't be watching these internationals. I'm not sure that leaves me very many options, and the question continues to be asked; why should I take rugby league seriously when the sport itself refuses to?

Are there any stadiums available? Are medical personnel available? Are ballboys, cleaners, stewards, caterers, general helpers, bar staff etc... I expect its pretty damn difficult to find a venue to play any games at such a late time after being shafted by the cowardly antipodean. How about RL fans see this as a positive that we get to see any kind if international RL after what's happened and get right behind it.

I remember Keating's repellently pompous little opinion piece, and I also recall how badly he disguised his fury in the article exactly five years later, when many of us got in touch to ask him one very pertinent question. He was a bore and a boor and a windbag, and as a RU man, his opinion was hardly disinterested. There's a mindset that likes to be the first to see/imagine a crisis. It is the same mindset that sees everything dismissed as doomed to failure because people want to be right and crow about it. It gives them a chance to gloat on the occasions that their relentlessly negative predictions come true. A stopped clock will eventually be right. Aussie hack Phil "Booze" Rothfield has made a career out of it, but he's not alone. Every sport has people who hearken back to a time when all was well, the players were better and the future looked golden. Then, if you look at the opinions from that halcyon time, you see exactly the same whinges, doom-mongering and nostalgia. We shall only be able to judge the attendance situation when the 2022 season starts. Quite apart from the season ticket factor, there will be a lot of older fans who are, quite prudently, not feeling quite ready to go to a stadium full of people shouting and singing. Yes, there's every chance that parochial interests will either exclude Toulouse (if they earn promotion) or find another way to hamstring them. Club chairmen were just as myopic in whatever imaginary golden age one chooses to believe in. That's the Catch-22 - you can't get rid of the dead hand of narrow self-interest until you make the alternative profitable, and that's why SL clubs vote to keep their cartel and NRL clubs scupper the World Cup. They want to be the big fish in the small pond forever. Keep in mind that a lot of people on TRL who say "that's it, I'm done with the sport forever" are only doing it because a referee made an entirely correct decision that cost their club points, and they're back on here for the next round with the same complaints. Unless they get banned for called the referee corrupt. I'm not belittling the state the game's in, what with the loss of income from COVID coinciding with almost weekly stories about the long-term dementia risks of collision sports. Things are really tough right now, no doubt about it. But, the one-off payment aside, we dodged the private equity elephant-trap and we have lower overheads than the other code (who are up to their necks in ever-increasing losses). The "flood" of players to NRL and RU is, in reality, a trickle. But is it more of an issue than ever before, or are people just following the modern trend of being more hysterical and polarised?

You're right - I take it all back. Fev is without doubt the best play to an international and create an 'event'. The takings from the corporate sales alone will be enormous.

I took a Stoke City fan to the game last night, his first ever live RL match. He loved every minute of it, even though it was one sided affair he didn’t care who won he just enjoyed the whole night. He has only seen the players get stuck in to one another on TV, but he said “seeing it live was something else, how the f*** do they f****** get up and carry on playing after those tackles”. He was also surprised how good the atmosphere was. I’ve not persuaded him to be a Saints fan (yet), but he said “he’d love to come another match”. I know people will say ‘he’s a Stoke fan he will watch anything”, but he is now a Stoke City fan who has enjoyed the games on TV but would now love to attend more live RL games.

I'm not sure they should play it. If the powers-that-be are going to treat it as an afterthought and provide insufficient resources to create a meaningful event that will be attractive to both spectators and players, then they shouldn't bother. It isn't a case of picking a ground and saying "it would be good there - they've got a train station nearby and should get at least 5k through the gates". They need to do some market research, put a meaningful long term calendar together and put games out to tender to see which towns and cities want to host. Not throw something together at the last minute based off the back of a fag packet. What is the point of these games? Is it to just tick a box to say they've played some? If they're played in uninspiring stadiums with minimal effort going in to the promotion and the wider 'event' side of things, then I fail to see how they're going to prompt the players to make themselves eligible to play, or to make the event attractive to spectators. What good is that going to do ahead of next year's World Cup?

Just watching the final of The Hundred and thoroughly enjoying it. I know there's a whole other thread on The Hundred and lessons that RL can learn, but it's obvious from this that a significant proportion of the crowd are there for the 'event' as opposed to being die hard fans of either team. If RL's powers-that-be are seriously considering playing Jamaica vs Scotland at Fev, then it perfectly encapsulates why the game is currently in the dire straits that it's in.

I would have made every effort to hold some games exactly as they would have been for the RLWC. Cut-price tickets for those with a RLWC ticket already. If Jamaica were due to play Ireland at Headingley on a Friday/Saturday night (I think they were), and 10k tickets had been sold, build on that interest.

Well it's better than nothing I suppose... At least these are just the warm up games to a decent month or so of other internationals with England playing Wales in Cardiff and Scotland in Edinburgh and France in Toulouse and Jamaica in funking Narnia..! We can only hope...

People constantly delighting in death riding the game are really starting to get tedious. Especially when a tiny bit of scrutiny would bring some context. What was the attendance for the last regular season non Good Friday Wigan-Saints game at the DW? 19th July 2018, 16,047.

I'll wait until next year's World Cup. I went to the recent England game at Warrington, the atmosphere was ###### and a halt empty stadium to boot. Plus an England side who couldn't beat a team only finalised on the Tuesday as they played at the weekend.

England should be playing France in France

Totally agree that is now a case of clubs scrambling for the crumbs and are just too dumb, or too desperate, to realise that SKY will just keep offering smaller and smaller amounts. IMHO I would rather see the sport be bold and take the initiative by going to SKY and saying for example: ’Rugby League understand that the sport needs to improve its offer to the supporters, the viewer and the broadcaster. Therefore the sport has agreed to the following- 1. For the first year of a new TV a deal we will bring in a 2 x 10 Conference system with 20 full time clubs 2, We will announce this ASAP to give existing non full time clubs the maximum amount of time to consider if they want to put themselves forward for consideration and to also give them the maximum opportunity to build towards being full time 3. All clubs will receive the same amount of TV money to give an equal base to work from 3. However, we will abolish the salary cap to enable ALL clubs interested in being in the new system to seek out new investment opportunities 4. A 27 game season. With 18 Conference games plus 9 against other Conference teams with cross Conference play offs 5. create an independent body to lead the game forward But to deliver this we need X amount of money from the next TV deal’ Put the ball in SKY’s court to see what they are willing to pay for a new model. P.S. As I stated the model above is just an example and clubs in a league lower than above should be provided with some income

Me neither re Rimmer, but you seem to overlook that Sky are the customer it is up to the sport to provide Sky with the quality that they are paying for, if the sport doesn't improve it's offering and quickly there will be no customers including Sky wanting to buy the product. I am one of the long time converted and I am along with a lot of other people like me becoming disillusioned with the game, burying ones head in the sand and telling all and sundry we have The Greatest Game doesn't wash any more, either we improve or we implode.

I reckon that, if someone did a proper and thorough check through the newspaper archives before 1895, we'd find at least one opinion piece confidently predicting the death of Rugby League... before Rugby League actually existed.

The death of the game has been predicted by its fans for it's full 125 years

Its great converting people... I've had quite a few successes

Yep. I'd go for Leigh. There's a really good pub down the road from the stadium and the fans will be able to get the number 54 bus. I'm surprised they haven't booked the Grand Final there to be honest.

Ugh, the old chestnut of Featherstone being a tiny village is so boring and tiresome. Maybe the reality of the situation is Featherstone regularly hosts Rugby matches for the community, has the right facilities for this type of fixture and maybe would get a full house - which would look good on TV (if on tv). No idea if it's the best as I don't know what venues are available. I don't think Ashton Goulding, Dale Ferguson, Danny Addy, Callum Mcelland would have any problems playing there.

And yet I bet if you asked everyone in the crowd if they enjoyed themselves, the vast majority would say yes.

No , it's " thats ok a month after we can open up fully , next year we have to get back to where we were and build from that "

My point still stands, there’s a few factors why crowds are down and covid is a very big factor

If they can't resource it properly then they shouldn't do it IMO. It just massively devalues the international game when things are done half-arsed. And that's the last thing they should be doing with a World Cup next year.

Sherwood Pines this week, the second time I've done it. 23.27, which is 2 minutes less than my 2015 time. There are a couple of climbs - not steep but fairlly long. The one between 1k and 2K really saps your energy. Pretty much the time I'd hoped for. Excellent Full English in the cafe afterwards.

Absolutely. Thoroughly nice bloke

Completely agree, I’ve said before its going to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

I completely disagree. There are a number of Wigan fans on here who have made their issues with the wider game known. Yes Wigan fans may have issues with what is happening at the club but it's false to dismiss the issues in the wider game. There is a malaise and discontent in the game generally that is affecting attendances at all the big clubs.

You literally have no idea of this, of course there can be an excuse/reason for it, there is no information on it as of yet (we don't even know if it's true). I do apologise on the last post though, was unnecessary. But it gets my back up when people immediately pile in without having any facts around something.

But we have no idea as to why, immediately people are jumping all over it without knowing if its even true, or if it is why its happening. Most stadiums will have been desperately trying to fill their calendar as soon as they were allowed to have sport played there, there's a very good chance of limited availability for games organised at such short notice.

It will be a long time till Wigan get 20k again, their fans are not a happy bunch at the moment and its nowt to do with the wider game or Covid

I watched Scotland v Wales in Galashiels....and a friend of mine goes to watch community games regularly

Jamaica got a decent following at Headingley when they last played there and they are due to play World Cup games cat Headingley, it’d be a good venue for Jamaica v Scotland.

Sad reality is that with barely any promotion and playing only the Knights, the Jamaica game a couple of years ago got a pretty decent crowd given the circumstances at Headingley. Its all lip service.

For me there's too much compromise in SL. This is where we should allow for the least amount of wriggle room! Also with a 35% reduction in funding, why offer the same volume to sky at reduced quality? I would be arguing that for 35% we will offer less games but of a higher standard and will be coming up with other products to attract SKY etc to buy them. So I did a quick fag packet licencing test across about 10 criteria including strategic value and market penetration for all clubs. There are 10 clubs that have the potential of being in a super league. 2 are French, Wigan, Saints, Wire, Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield (Hull/Hull KR) and Newcastle. Then there are about 10 clubs knocking on that door, needing to improve community engagement, facilities or even a secure home. All 3 calder clubs, 2-3 strategically important teams such as the 2 London teams, Salford, Widnes, Barrow, Leigh and Hull/Hull KR. There are 13 or so clubs that can't compete with the above due to an even worse level of funding availability, facilities and community engagement/potential. For example I was surprised to find York in this group but the club is only just getting back on it's feet. And finally 3 clubs on the verge of extinction (IMO), all 3 in the heartlands. I could make a decision on the game using my basic formula and it wouldn't be mixing up the teams with such varied potential. You can of course mess with your own criteria to make sure your club stays in SL but I would appoint an independent panel to apply the rules. SL 1 clubs would have strict criteria and no club gets in if they don't match it. Those standards are diluted for SL 2 and the same applies until we get to community level where a lot more wriggle room is allowed. The basis of the main product is standards driven. We now have the potential for more creative ideas to increase fixtures such as magic nines, an improved challenge cup format, AB sundecks inclusion of more community clubs, etc. Some form of SL1, SL2 cross conference competition ??? Someone with more brains than me could come up with something.

Perhaps with some input from Sky something could be worked out, or to put it more bluntly, somethings needs to be worked out. We are just treading water at the moment. Rimmer shouldn't be within 100 miles of any plans to restructure the league

If Sky can come up with a formula that gets bigger TV audiences and bigger crowds that would get my vote, as it's too Skys advantage to get a bigger TV audience for the game. Ralph Rimmer never has inspired me with any confidence, never.

Aye Ian, it’s me

I appear to have made 5400 posts. To do such a post must take an average of at least a minute, maybe two. This one, for example, is probably going to take longer. Especially as I'm having to type out this explanation. And correct my spelling of probably. So, given that number that means I've spent more than 4 days of my life just typing stuff into this form. Never mind reading the drivel that other people write. As the poet James Wright observed at the end of his most famous poem, "I have wasted my life". I got 2800 rep points though, so maybe not.