Saint Toppy

To deem it a success or a failure you have to consider what it was designed to do. It was partly to stop a handful of rich clubs just buying up all the best players in the league (so there was no repeat of the pre SL era of Wigan dominance where they just went out and bought anyone they wanted like Hanley, Gregory, Lydon, Offiah, Platt etc.) SL wanted a more even distribution of the talent and an encouragement for clubs to develop more of their own players and not just try to buy the best to gain success. To some extent the Cap has worked, very few clubs mass buy players these days to try and win trophies (bar Warrington ). Its no coincidence that the most successful SL clubs are the ones who switched their attention to developing their own youngsters and having pathways to bringing them into the 1st team. The next main purpose of the SC was to try and stop clubs 'bankrupting' themselves in the pursuit of success. You only have to look at Wigan where their star player wage bill was huge compared to their income and in the end it almost bankrupted them and cost their their stadium home. Unfortunately the SC hasn't stopped clubs from financial disaster in the SL era but i'm sure it stopped many more from spending way beyond their means. So back to the question of has the SC worked - to some extent i'd say yes it has. However where it is now failing IMO, is that it hasn't kept up with events outside the sport in the UK. It hasn't kept pace with the cost of living & salaries and it definately hasn't kept up with other sports and competitors like the NRL and Union. I do think there's still a place for the SC in RL in the UK bit it definately needs a full review and updating.

Its not just about the first contact which can't be aimed at any of the joints, its also about the follow up actions. The NRL disciplinary explained it pretty well how players are encouraged after contact to then drop to their knees and either pull the player down or just clamp the legs so the upper tacklers can take them to ground, and not to use their own body weight to bring the player down which can lead to a twisting of the joints. That Paasi tackle on May was a 'textbook' 3rd man tackle exactly in line with the NRL's own guidance on tackle technique. Unfortunately what we see a lot of, and what both the NRL and RFL are trying to stamp out of the game is not just dangerous first contact but also players trying to use their own body weight as a 'lever' to bring the tackler down.

Incident has already ben reviewed by the NRL disciplinary and they ruled no case to answer. First contact was with the upper thigh and he just slid down the leg trying to effect the tackle and bring the player to the ground. No direct contact with the joints and no attempt to use his body as a 'lever' to twist the joints. It was just one of those unfortunate incidents that led to a season ending injury.

Lomax is a great example of a consummate professional who's had to constantly adapt even from a young age. He had to adapt to play on after a fractured skull as a youngster. In his early career he struggled to put the size & weight on so went on an intensive weights programme, but this ultimately led to putting too much strain on his joints & other muscles and a constant stream of injuries. So he changed his training routine completely to focus more on flexibility rather than muscle strength and this seems to have worked for him in being able to stay relatively injury free for the last few years. Lomax & Roby are the kind of professionals you want all your youngsters to aspire to be like.

From what i've see Will Roberts will be the next half back pushing for a 1st team squad place before George Whitby, and look out for Ciaran Nolan. He looks a couple of years away just yet but has the making of a top class 9. Roby is irreplaceable so the 9 short is definately up for grabs next year, but for be the most pressing position to get sorted out is centre. Both Hopate & Hurrell are OOC so they'll definately have to bring someone in to take the 3 shirt, at least in the short term. I don't think Bruines is quite ready yet to step up and i'm not convinced by Davies at all as a centre.

Hah ha ha those whinging Aussies just can't bear it to see a humble SL side so far up one of their leagues. They're soo peed off they've even deducted 7 points of the Saints total so the NRL clubs below them don't look as embarrassing. It was 12 points for a win so Saints got 24 points for their 2 wins, plus they got 3 bonus points - giving them a total of 27 - NOT the 20 they're showing on that table

Your right in that most of the players missing were backs, though I forgot to mention Mata'utia who also missed 11 league games (through combination of injury & suspension). Still even with significant numbers of the backs missing only Wigan & Salford scored more points and Saints defence was massively better than any other team.

There's a pretty high probability thats gong to happen given most of the squad isn't even getting back to the UK until tomorrow evening. As a reward for winning the WCC the players were given a choice of whether they wanted to come straight home or to take a lay-over flight and go out partying. Over Half the squad are still in Bangkok celebrating the win. There's a pretty strong chance that Cas will be facing a Saints Reserve team next weekend, and any 1st team players who do play wont have trained properly this week.

For me the most remarkable thing about Saints winning it last year was the fact they did with so many key players missing throughout the year. The lost Grace for almost the entire season, Dodd for the vast majority of it, Hopoate played just a handful of games, Percival missed nearly half the year, Walmsley missed the run-in & play-off's and Lomax played half the season having to have a pain killing injection before every match. I, like man other people thought they'd really struggle missing those players, but they still managed to finish top and win the GF. Every team has injuries to key players at various times during a season, the key to a successful year is how well they can cope without those players.

Thewlis & Ashton. Red Rooster couldn't be more wrong with what he said in his post - Wire are nothing like Saints, Wigan & Leeds, the 3 most successful clubs in SL. The home grown players obviously does matter given those 3 clubs predominantly use home grown players in their teams and then add from outside. Wire use predominantly outside players and then add in a couple of home grown. History shows the former consistently brings success and the latter doesn't.

So what success has Powell had at the top level ? and what core of home grown players ? - That team last night had the sum total of 2 home grown players in it.

Totally irrelevant - thats like saying Saints are without Regan Grace

Drinkwater is a Matty Smith style half back. If the forwards are dominating then he'll look good and be able to sit back and dictate play (which in turn will fee up Williams to to what he does best which is run the ball). However when his forwards are not dominating and he gets put under pressure then he's totally anonymous and more often than not comes up with poor plays. He's most definately not a half back who's going to win a game for Wire. There's going to be huge pressure on the likes of Vaughn, Bullock, Kasiano & Mikaele to stamp their authority on this game

Why are you even talking about Kikau, he's no longer at the club. They've known for over a year he wasn't going to be there in 2023 so have had plenty of time to plan & find a replacement, same for Koriosau. The fact is Penrith are missing two 1st choice players (Martin & Edwards) and Saints are missing one (Batchelor), so absentees / injuries isn't an excuse for either club if they lose.

Team hasn't been announced yet - the Aussies have just released the squad list order based on player squad numbers

Glad the NRL are being sensible about this game given the extreem heat. First moving the start time forward, now allowing 18 players instead of 17, increasing the number of subs to 10 and playing it as 4 quarters with drinks breaks instead of halves.

Only after they watched Westerman's online Vids

The same could be said for Saints in SL which is why they are 4 time back to back champions over here. If anything the way the game is officiated in the NRL improves Saints chances. Saints thrive of high intensity, quick PTB's but that doesn't happen often in SL as the officials allows a lot of slowing down of the PTB. This doesn't happen as much in the NRL and it allows teams to get on a roll much more easily. It puts greater pressure on defences but allows teams with that style of play (like Saints) to get into good field position set after set.

Knowles trained during the week but was taken ill the day before, but he should be fine for next week. The club hasn't released any statements yet on the extent of Batchelors foot injury he picked up in the first half of the Dragons game so we'll have to wait & see if he plays or not.

Personally I think its going to go the same way as the Roosters game a few years back with the majority of the game being fairly close but the Panthers managing to pull out something spectacular in the last quarter to win it 28-20

Overall that wasn't a bad performance for a first hit out for quite a few of those players. The forwards in particular looked to have the upper hand against the Dragons and as much I like Bell as a player he doesn't bring the same intensity in defence that Knowles will next week. For me what Saints need to do in order to really stand a chance next week is to cut down on the errors. Hurrels mis-read cost them 1 try and a couple of missed tackles the 2nd. They also put the ball down a few times when not really under much pressure so ball control needs to improve as the Panthers will punish them much more than the Dragons were capable of. Ok so the Dragons had a few missing like Hunt, Bird, Sloan, Woods & Molo but it was by no means a reserve team and lets be honest Saints dominated the majority of that game and even if the Dragons had been at near full strength I still fancy Saints would have won. Bring on the Panthers !!!

Keep hearing this about the threat from the big outside backs, thought Saints did pretty well in that department given they don't get much bigger than Ravalawa, Suli & Moga

What you or I think of his record is irrelevant, its what the RFL think. And as far as I know when they review the level of punishment for a player found guilty of an offence they take into account that players past disciplinary record whether that be in the NRL or in SL. McGuire has a pretty poor record in the NRL having been found guilty of numerous charges over many years. That won't do him any favours if he's found guilty of this charge

What on earth are you talking about ??? Regardless of what a person's actual job is or where they work, using offensive & discriminatory language against another 'employee' is pretty much outlawed everywhere in the UK. A rugby field is a workplace, just the same as an office or a building site and the employers and/or governing bodies all have rules against such behaviour. You and several others on this board may think its nothing to get all worked up about, but thankfully the RFL take this kind of behaviour seriously, hence why the players have been charged with the highest possible grading for offences. If the players used the words / phrases that have been alleged then quite frankly they both deserve to sit out the first couple of months of the season. For someone like Mcguire who's disciplinary record throughout his career has been very poor he's hardly likely to receive any leniency from the disciplinary panel if found guilty and could well receive a longer ban than Amone.

Given its not that long ago Wire fans were on here defending their coach over his offensive 'M**g' comments, is it any surprise they're on here now defending their players over offensive comments trying to pass them off an nothing more than 'friendly banter'