Adelaide Tiger

Errr, sorry I did laugh when you mentioned Hull You are right about other possible obstacles but as I said in a previous post I was just throwing out a suggestion.

A N Other! If it is impossible for the RFL/SL to come to some agreement with a scheduled airline operator to organise this then fair enough.

I saw your post just after I had replied to MJM above. A good idea. You should put it to the RFL/SL as they might not have even thought about it. And don’t forget to add in a finders fee!

By all means leave it as it is and let a club like Leeds pay £100k for a charter flight at 6 days notice. And if Catalans win then let them pay tens of thousands next week and the week after if they reach the GF. The game must be flush with money it we are willing to blow so much on Charter flights. And you are right that we do not know if Catalans will even reach the Play Offs. BUT, here is some crazy thinking. How about having a contingency plan in place should Catalans reach the Play Offs and drastically reduce the cost of flights thereby keeping more money in the game! At the start of the season in anticipation for the PLAY OFFS you just need to book 5 flights of 25 tickets on a scheduled service totalling 125 seats. Not thousands! The reason why you only need to book 5 flights on a scheduled flight is that you pre-determine the date and time when Catalans would play their play off game(s) whether they are home and away. Simple. UK Airport - Surely to God if you say to all teams at the start of the season ‘We have got tickets already booked at a low cost if you are drawn away at Catalans in the play offs and you will fly from Leeds Airport as that is central for all teams’. I am sure that the most distant clubs like Saints or Hull/Hull KR would prefer a 90 minute drive to Leeds Airport than having to spend tens of thousands on a Charter flight. Or I might be wrong. Sometimes I just shake my head at the total absence of pre-planning in our game.

And that is entirely my point. Sort out the flights at the start of the season as per my suggestion then you will not have the 6 day notice issue.

I haven’t got the will to read pages 2-4 so apologies if my comments have already been made. These points are irrespective of whoever pays for the flights. 1. Visits to Catalans during the regular season. Once the fixtures are known can 25 seats on 13 scheduled flights to Catalans be booked for the season. Surely players can sit in economy class for 2 hours. Do not change the dates of the fixtures! If flight times mean an overnight stay then strike a deal with a local hotel. This should substantially reduce existing costs. 2. For the play-offs. Two options. Option 1 do what Leeds have had to do and organise a charter flight. OR. Option 2. Plan ahead at the start of the season !!!!!!! In any season it is possible that 5 flights may need to be planned for either Catalans or their opponents as Catalans could reach the play offs and the Grand Final. I.e. 5 flights are needed to be booked as Catalans could play home or away in Week 1 and Week 2 and play away in the Grand Final. So why not purchase 25 tickets on these 5 potential flights upon the commencement of the season? I.e. For arguments sake let’s assume next season Catalans finish 4th again. Therefore before Week 1 of the play offs commence you can already cancel purchased tickets for Catalans flying to the UK in Week 1 as they would have an home game in Week 1. Also cancel purchased tickets for any team travelling to Catalans in Week 2 as Catalans would have no other home games. Week 1 - Catalans home fixture. The away team already have tickets purchased. If Catalans lose this game then the two sets of flight tickets for Week 2 and the GF are automatically cancelled. If Catalans win then ……. Week 2 - their flight tickets to the UK are already purchased. If they lose in Week 2 then cancel flight tickets for Grand Final week. If they win then the tickets are already purchased. Caveat - I am basing the above on my very limited knowledge of the Air Industry ticketing policy. Can such a volume of tickets per flight be canceled at such short notice? Or can be tickets be transferred to a later date so they can be used for the first few games of the following season? Anyway it is just a suggestion.

Nowhere near the first class record of New Zealander Glenn Turner, when playing for Worcestershire against Glamorgan in 1977 carried his bat by hitting 141 out of 169! A total of 83.43% of the total. After his innings he was interviewed and said ‘I told them - his teammates- that there was nothing wrong with the pitch, but they didn’t seem to believe me!’

Just enjoyed watching Zimbabwe obliterate the Aussies in the 3rd one day international. Ryan (the Earl of Twirl) Burl took an astounding 5 wickets for 10 runs in just 3 overs as the Aussies were skittles for 141 in just 31 overs with Warner hitting 94. The Zimbabweans tried their best to throw the match away but won by 3 wickets.

Hahahaha! A week or so ago me and the wife went to our local Bunnings - sort of B and Q for those in the UK - looking for two toilets to replace those in our daughters house. There was a row of toilets along one aisle and the wife pointed to one she liked. So I lifted the lid and sat down on the toilet to check its comfiness. Seeing as no one was in the aisle except for the two of us, for a laugh I let out a ‘one cheek sneak. Unfortunately it came out louder and more raspberry sounding than expected. What made things worse according to the wife. or better according to me, was that the sound was amplified by the fact that the display toilet bowl had a cling film cover over it. For some reason the wife wasn’t impressed. How is it that wives have no sense of humour?

The only sure fire way to predict the future is to pay a to spiritualist to contact Paul the Octopus and ask what will be super League be like in five years time!

No need to apologise Tubby the problem with message boards is that posts no matter how well intentioned can still be misinterpreted. So I readily accept that I may have misread your post. However your response above is one of the most passionate from the heart posts I have read in a long time and I cannot fault anything that you believe or say. As a Cas supporter I am not sure if they would be in a 10 or even 12 team closed shop league as I accept that both Leigh and Toulouse have far better stadia and if they are protected from relegation could grow and attract the same attendances that Cas get. You use the word ‘dispassionate’ and in the business world that is sometimes seen as a key strength for a decision maker. The difference is that whilst sport is now seen as a business it is unique as we attach ourselves to a club that we care deeply about and not to a company such as BMW, Marks and Spencer or Starbucks. But a decision has to be made and I do not envy those that have to decide the next chapter for the game. No doubt some of us will accept the decision and some won’t.

Strewth, I now have to explain time difference to you Adelaide is 8 and a half hours ahead so it’s 3.25pm now and as I work for myself I finished at 3pm today.

I would have loved to see your post before you edited it. It probably asked if I would obtain the tax records of every individual that has ever played in any of those lower structures to ascertain if they were professional, semi-professional or amateur and list them by age, colour of eyes and if they have heard of Leigh Oh sod it, I am having a break so I will respond professionally as is my want. Mr Gubrats. 30 August 2022 Leigh Suburb of Wigan. Ref:bin/notrainstation 7 and a quarter miles from Wigan Pier Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. Dear Mr Gubrats Subject: Trawling Through the Great Leagues of our time Thank you for post of 29 August. My assistant and I have spent many hours trawling the internet - which you could have done it apparently but could not be ar$ed - and found the following information. 1. Some leagues consist of fully independent clubs and some leagues such as the Eastern and Western Divisions in Japanese baseball act as ‘farm’ clubs. That is they provide experience and training for young players and are not brainless apprentices that drive combine-harvesters or shovel pig poo 2. No idea. So I whipped my assistant very roughly with my pony tail - are pony tails fashionable in Leigh - as he failed with this task. 3. Obviously players in the IPL and Big Bash are fully professional even my goldfish knows that … ooops he’s forgotten it again. I also believe minor leagues such as the NFL, USA Baseball and Aussie Rules are semi - pro. Japanese baseball no idea so my assistant got a good old kicking in the goolies. 4. Seeing that the our Council fully supports our younger people through the College (TAFE) system I am dismayed that you do not recognise Collegiate structures in sports ….. did you fail your Eleven Plus? So I assume you believe that the BUCS structure in RL has no relevance whatsoever in the UK RL structure. 5. Yes they are. I so look forward to watching the Strikers this season as they have just picked Rashid Khan as their top draft pick. Not too sure about Colin de Grandhomme as their second pick but I digress. I do hope that this answers your request if not my assistant will have his tongue stapled to his desk by using a blunt spoon. Your sincerely A Tiger. Adelaide City Council - College (TAFE) Department. Fried-out Kombi Street. Land of Plenty. Formerly from Gods Own County Ahhh, back to work ….. Oi! Assistant don’t go hiding that blunt spoon!

Tubby. See my response to David Shepherd above as to how this strand within this thread started and how I am neutral on the P&R option or closed shop option. In RL terms the word history is very chequered. Since 1974 the game has had at least 8 changes to the structure and some teams were simply discarded. Other teams were denied entry to SL due to not meeting criteria. History of the game is extremely important but history cannot be the driver for which ever option is decided.

Of course they were. But it was you that initially commented that you would not attend ‘dead rubbers’ meaning a ‘closed shop’. All I did was highlight that hundreds of thousands of people attend leagues that involve dead rubbers. For some reason a few posters on here made the assumption that I fully back the ‘closed shop’ option where I clearly stated in my response to you and in response to other people that I am open to either a ‘closed shop’ - with opportunities for teams to join at a later date - or aP&R model.

The simple answer is that all those sports have sustainable leagues below them. The NFL have 5 minor leagues beneath them plus the college system. The Indian Premier Cricket League - please tell me that you understand cricket is played across all of India. Aussie Rules you have State Competitions. Big Bash cricket (Australia) see IPL example. Japanese baseball have an Eastern and Western minor league. Major League Baseball has many minor leagues, Independent leagues and College leagues. In a nutshell all of the teams in the lower leagues understand the relationship with the predominant league.

Totally agree with your post. But it is my opinion that some of the systems employed over the years were more based on self interest than being genuinely for the good of the game. And you are right that whatever IMG come up with will satisfy some people and infuriate others. Your final comment truly encapsulates RL in the UK over the last 50 that if there is not immediate success then people panic and look for something else.

Errrr No, I know and no! My post to Dave Shepherd was in response to his comment that he would not watch games he classed as ‘dead rubbers’ I.e. a closed shop. I provided examples of six of the top eight highest average attendance leagues in the world that were closed shops. I also spoke about how RL/SL had the same issues that those six leagues had and I added that I hoped IMG would look at the Closed Shop option AND P&R option to determine the best model for the future of the game. Now, the comment that you responded to above was in fact my reply to Big Picture when he in turn had commented about my response to Dave Shepherd. However Big Picture slightly changed the narrative by asking that ‘You could not compare SL to those six leagues’. Therefore I responded to Big Picture by commenting how SL should look closely at the processes used by those successful leagues and see if some of those processes could benefit a new model for the game. You omitted my final comment to Big Picture where I stated that I did not mind if a Closed Shop model or P&R model was chosen provided it was the best model for the future of the game. P.S. I know Dave Shepherd follows Fev as we used to have banter with each other when we worked together for a few years. P.P.S. I am interested in the whole of the game thriving. Some of you believe that only P&R can deliver this as it gives clubs in lower divisions the opportunity for progression. But as we have seen since 1974 that nearly 50 years with P&R - excluding 6 years of licensing - the whole game from under 9’s to the professional game has not thrived. So as a matter of process it is only right that other options have to be reviewed.

Good evening Harry. Since the 1970’s RL has tried one division, two divisions, three divisions, two divisions, super league and northern ford premiership, world club championship, three divisions, licensing, non P&R, three leagues, middle 8’s, P&R and now the game is subject to another review. So to answer your question it is difficult to quantify what licensing actually achieved because like every other ‘latest idea’ to fix the game it wasn’t given sufficient time. I could ask you to tell me what the other structures tried over the last 50 years that included P&R have done to improve the quality of the sport and you too would have great difficulty in answering that. BTW in both my previous posts on this I have said that I hope both the Closed Shop (Licensing) option AND a P&R option are closely examined and the option that provides the best opportunity for the future growth of the game is recommended.

BP. I am sure some on here will have a go at me for my post. Firstly, I mentioned those 6 leagues purely in response to the post from my old work colleague David Shepherd who quoted that he would not watch ‘dead rubbers’ in a closed shop league. However, it is obvious that tens/hundreds of thousands of people do watch ‘dead rubbers’ in sports that operate a closed shop. Secondly, I have not stated that SL has the capability to be as big as those sports or close the gulf between them as that would be totally preposterous. My main point was that success is relative and relative success can be achieved through scale and processes that you implement. SCALE - SL is concentrated into a relatively small geographical area but it has a population of probably 8 million within 30 minutes of an SL ground. Let’s pretend that one of the KPI’s for the next 10 years is for SL to average 15k per game then in terms of scale that is just as ambitious as the NFL wanting to attract 70k. But how do you achieve that scale? PROCESS - Whether you are a sporting organisation a la RFL/SL or a new start up making widgets you should study organisations in your respective field to understand the processes that they use to be successful. Surely the whole reason IMG are involved is that even SL bosses and Chairmen accept SL has stagnated so is in need of new ideas and processes. So I suggested that the RFL/SL study both closed shop leagues and other leagues using P&R to create the best model for the future of the game. Whether that best model is a closed shop or with P&R remains to be seen. P.S. I do not mind which model is chosen providing it is chosen with honesty and transparency and it is the best model to grow the game and not a model chosen for self interest or appeasement.

It may surprise people that 6 of the top 8 sports worldwide with the highest average attendance in 2019 - prior to Covid - are all closed shop leagues. They are the NFL, Indian Premier League, Aussie Rules, Big Bash Cricket (Australia), Japanese Baseball and Major League Baseball. The other two are the EPL and Bundesliga. Those sports are incredibly effective at encouraging people to attend ‘dead rubbers’; generate high levels of corporate sponsorship; have eye watering TV income; have high profile media exposure etc. RL/SL in the UK is just like any other sport and irrespective of its size has the same type of challenges in trying to increasing people attending; increasing corporate sponsorship; increasing TV income; increasing media exposure etc. If your first thought is ‘How can you compare SL to those six leagues mentioned above’ then IMHO you are completely missing the point. It is all about scale and process. SL does not need to become a behemoth but it can learn from processes adopted by those leagues. So I hope that both the Closed Shop model* and P&R model are looked at with honesty and transparency to see which model will be most beneficial for the next 10-20 years for rugby league and not for the short term view. * IMHO a closed shop model should look at inviting a new member to join every three years

Harry, I am only just using your paragraph here to raise a general point based on the away supporter discussion. So please do not take it personally. If Leigh get Promoted. Of course it is a no brainer that Wigan would rather have 3,000 Leigh supporters generating approx £100k than no Toulouse supporters. I would also assume that Saints and Warrington would prefer Leigh to gain promotion as they will receive a reasonable increase in income for home games v Leigh. So in RL terms 3 teams will have a good financial gain. But if next season Leigh only take AN AVERAGE of 500 supporters to games at Salford and East of the Pennines that only generates around £15k more for each club when compared to nil supporters from Toulouse. Not a massive amount to those clubs. If Fev get Promoted. Then Cas, Wakey and Leeds are the clubs that should benefit most as Fev would take an average of 2-3,000 supporters to those games. But as with Leigh, Fev would probably only take an average of 500 supporters to clubs West of the Pennines, Huddersfield, Hull and Hull KR. So again that would be worth on average around £15k to each club. So simply put if Toulouse are promoted for the 2024 SL season and for arguments sake let’s say either Fev or Leigh are relegated then only 3 clubs local to the relegated club would be greatly impacted in comparison to 7 others that will be impacted minimally. Is the above a strong enough argument for IMG to propose an M62 competition at the expense of French clubs?

Another great team name in there Tsar Dusan the Mighty! Just read on google that he was a 14th century King of Serbia. Love to have an English team called King Richard III Buried In A Car Park

Just spotted this thread and read the first page? I cannot be ar$ed reading the next 8 pages so apologies if I go over ground already covered. But, how do League Express check that a Geoffrey Bagley actually exists ….. or any other contributor? On reading the article I think someone is on a wind up.

You are right that the problems run deep as exemplified by this message board over the years. Just imagine if a group of people last week created a new game called rugby league and then with a blank sheet of paper created the governance structure, league structure, financial regulations etc. they would end up with something that fits their vision and shows a pathway to grow the game. However the situation we have now is that we have a group of influential people representing sections of the sport looking at a sheet of paper that is full of squiggles, rubbing outs, outdated diagrams, old and used league structures and self interest thoughts. IMHO SOME of those influential people are not remotely interested in creating a new world order for the game but in making sure that whatever is decided only meets their own/club agenda ……. and somehow they expect to create a more profitable product! Absolutely crackers!