EagleEyePie

I actually think Catalans are a more imposing team and harder to beat away from home this year. At home they are very beatable. They've lost to Warrington twice, Huddersfield and were battered by Wigan in the south of France. Saints are on a 10 game winning streak that won't end because they can grind out results better than any other team in the competition but also have plenty of points in them if you give them an opportunity. Saints by 14.

Rovers won't be lacking confidence having beaten Wigan already in a semi final and Wigan will be under more pressure having finished top and with home advantage. Can this Wigan side deal with that pressure? We won the challenge cup last season but the expectation is greater now. I think Rovers style of play is more capable than most of causing Wigan problems. They are great at getting late offloads, targeting the players around the ruck and concentrating defenders in the middle of the field trying to cope with the likes of Parcell, only to throw the ball wide to that dangerous left edge where Kenny-Dowall can do damage. Wigan like to get players into the tackle and that is our biggest strength and biggest weakness. Around the time of the cup semi final I think Wigan were struggling to adapt the game plan at times. We were obviously confident in our ability to score every time we were in good field position (a very Brisbane-esque philosophy) but we weren't clinical enough. We'd try to force something and make an error or concede a tap 20 and it meant we let teams relieve the pressure after each attack. I think over the last few weeks we've seen a greater emphasis on controlling the game and controlling the field position. We still try to score on the last tackle more often than not but the way we go about it has been more controlled. Smith is placing kicks just before the try line about 10 metres in field on the last. There's a scoring chance but that chance isn't as high, but the result is usually keeping the opposition pinned on their try line rather than turning the ball over 20 metres further back. The last game against Leigh showed how much we'd improved this approach. We took fewer risks late on in the game rather than forcing a game deciding try. It's also important not to get too comfortable playing a more conservative style. Our strength is still with our outside backs and their scoring and assisting record this year speaks for itself. We just need to be adaptable. Wigan had a habit of taking early risks in games and just compounding it with more and more errors for an entire half before improving in the second. I don't think we'll get away with that on Saturday. I can see this game being another close one with one or two big moments deciding it.

I think that's good officiating from Thaler. It was direct shoulder contact to the head but there's a lot of mitigation so a sin bin is the sensible call.

That is the greatest football manager game ever made and being able to upgrade your stadium is one of the reasons why. I'll never forget taking Wigan Athletic to the Premier League and replacing the east stand at the DW with the non-covered east stand from the Nou Camp. Fans in the highest tier of the stand would have panoramic views from Marsh Green to Pem while Wigan got battered having sold all my best players to fund it. Since RL has been played at the Nou Camp, the east stand joins the south stand from central coast stadium. I might have to leave it there otherwise IMG will take too many points away for empty seats.

I was hoping Wigan might make an offer for El-Zakhem. I thought he was really impressive in the world cup for Lebanon and he just seems like one of those players who would thrive in Super League. A hugely consistent metre maker and good offloader. I thought he'd be ideal to replace what we're losing with KPP but it seems we're playing props in every position next year instead. I think he could have a big impact at Cas and be one of those lesser known overseas signings who make a name for themselves in Super League.

Might be a controversial choice, but the best south stand is at Central Coast Stadium. Who needs a stand when you can have a row of palm trees and views of Brisbane Water (and a busy road, but we'll ignore that bit). If the away end at Headingley was demolished and replaced with palm trees it would instantly become the best ground in Super League.

Not moving forward into the defender would help, but even if he'd stayed still it's still obstruction. The onus is on Mellor not to go through the man playing the ball to score the try as it means the defence can't possibly tackle him. He has to go around Ipape.

There's absolutely 0 evidence that it wasn't a clear obstruction, if that helps.

Straightforward that call. Ipape's forward movement means the defender can't get to Mellor and Mellor makes contact with Ipape going over. Won't stop people calling it an injustice or inconsistent though.

That's probably the wrong outcome for the Hall try as it looked like Mellor had his arm underneath, but it was weak play to turn over the ball and weak defending to allow Hall to get over the line. If Leigh had defended better that marginal call never has to be made, but it will be the officials who 'robbed' Leigh if that turns out to be decisive when there was ample opportunity to prevent Hall even crossing the line.

I think this is the logical take when it comes to analysing the outcome of games. You can't control the calls a referee makes, but you can prevent tries being conceded. There were two tries that Leigh could have prevented but didn't which had a greater bearing on the outcome of that game. If you'd played a near perfect game and then the ref made an incorrect call that cost you the points you might be entitled to be upset, but that would probably also require the opposition to have played a near perfect game too. If Wigan had lost that game then plenty of Wigan fans and possibly myself included would have still bemoaned the obstruction call against us and it not being called obstruction against French but the reality is we failed at things we could control. As much as Lam might never have reached Field the fact is Nsemba's run was too close to the outside shoulder and allowed Lam to initiate contact. That's a mistake and something the team can control. The Gildart no-try was a stroke of luck for us but we should never have allowed them to be in that position. The Lam try came from a defensively mistake from Nsemba and a poor tackle attempt from French. If the Gildart try had stood you should point the finger of blame at the poor defending for the Lam try rather than any perceived mistake by the official. It's like when teams make a clean break, 2 on 1 with the fullback and the final pass is forward but the try is given and the fans and maybe even coach howl with outrage. That's blaming the ref for bad luck. Everyone knows in that situation a try will be scored unless the attacking team messes up. You can't control that final pass, you can't control whether the other team mess up, what can't be disputed is they shouldn't have been allowed into a position where the only thing preventing a try being scored is the attacking team making a mistake. Its not the refs fault, it's the fault of the players who allowed the attacking team to make the break.

Slightly diverting the topic a little, but I feel like at some point we'll see the end of drop outs anyway, so there will have to be another method of restart for being tackled in the in-goal or knocking the ball dead. Even collisions that don't result in contact with the head can contribute to concussions and drop outs are one of those situations that lead to significant impacts with carries of up to 20m directly into onrushing defenders. It's hard to work around kick offs, but drop outs can be more easily avoided. I wonder if we'll soon see scrums given for grounding the ball or knocking it dead. A tap restart would seem a bit bland.

Well this has been an entertaining thread. I feel like I've turned up right as the party's over. For what it's worth I'll give my opinion. Derek Beaumont's comments don't exactly reflect well on him and come across as a very immature. Arguments like 'other club owners would have done the same' are ridiculous whataboutery. Some have made similar comments in the past and have been called out on them (the example of McManus has already been used). Some will probably make similar comments in the future and will be called out on them. Saying "you'd probably say X too" doesn't mean saying "X" is okay. This idea that it was some great injustice and who could blame someone for being upset. I don't buy it. It was an incident that happened with nearly half an hour of the game still to play. There was still plenty of time left to decide the game. It was a game that decided whether Leigh finished 4th or 5th. This wasn't a situation that ended their season, or decided a cup final, or saw them relegated, it decided whether they play at home or away. If that is the benchmark for such outbursts we're going to be seeing them a lot more frequently from now on. It was one of a vast number of harsh calls throughout the year that played a part in deciding the outcome of games but were not the single deciding factor (because one incident never is). Having said that, people can get very personal about stuff like this but ultimately I don't think it's a massive issue. Derek Beaumont has mentioned his mental health issues previously and I don't want to start speculating on anyone's wellbeing but impulsiveness and difficulty controlling emotions are pretty common traits for a variety of mental health conditions. Things get said in the heat of the moment, people get carried away. Just because some people find it easy to control what they say doesn't mean everyone does. I don't think it necessarily says that much about a person in isolation and I don't know the guy. I do know some really nice people who come out with some absolutely ludicrous stuff after a pint or two when angry or frustrated. Give them a load of money and an RL club to run they'd be just like DB. Basically, what he said comes across as a immature, he's probably going to get punished for it by the RFL but it's hardly a massive scandal.

I agree that Rowley is a bit fortunate to be one of the contenders. Willie Peters seems a more obvious choice and I'm not sure if the World Club Challenge actually gets taken into account for something like this but there's an argument for Wellens to be on there for winning that and then finishing level on points with the league leaders. Lam should definitely win it though. It's unprecedented for a promoted team to have achieved what Leigh have this season and they are more than capable of making it to the Grand Final too.

How would a "Why not both?" approach actually be implemented? Would it apply all the time or on a case by case basis? There's definitely logic in having bans that apply to the level you're playing at but it still means someone could play in the reserves grand final, commit an offence that's worthy of several matches and be able to turn up in the SL grand final the following week. It also means a player could pick up a lengthy ban in the reserves and join a team that doesn't have a reserve side and never have to serve the suspension. If the approach is to ban players for senior games and reserve games that means reserve games could still counting towards the suspension doesn't it? Perhaps bans in reserves fixtures should count for both reserve (U19 if eligible) and first team games, while first team bans only count for first team games? Though that still leaves the issue of a player getting a 5 match ban in the first team and playing every week for the U19's or reserves for the rest of the year without serving the suspension. I'm still banging the drum for only players outside the top 25 on the cap being allowed to use reserve games for suspensions, and top 25 players not being able to feature for the reserves if suspended. It might provide a slight benefit to a young player who has a strong season and makes the first team unexpectedly but it's unlikely to happen, given how infrequently this situation arises over the course of a year. In the current situation it would mean none of Wigan's 3 suspended players would be eligible for the semi final (which seems right) and they also couldn't just feature in the reserve grand final for the sake of it.

Your last sentence is a question I've already answered so I don't know why you've asked it. The first doesn't solve the problem. The onus shouldn't be on clubs in that situation. Just suspend players for the next games they are reasonably expected to take part in. In this case, French would miss the semi final and not a game he would never have taken part in anyway.

I remember Cas benefitting from this rule last season when they faced us. Liam Watts had been given a 2 match ban but missed 1 game + a reserves game and was free to play against us. I also think Wakefield benefitted from it this year. One of their players (Liam Hood I think) picked up a 1 match ban that was served with a reserves game.

Probably not that simple, as it means a fringe player could be called up to the first team, commit a really serious offence that gets them an 8+ match ban and just continue playing for the reserves for the rest of the year. Sure, they'd eventually have to serve the suspension but it would be a bad look for the sport if they were still playing the following week. I think a smaller tweak to the rules would be enough, such as only those outside of a clubs top 25 salary capped players being able to use reserves games towards suspensions. It means those that would usually play for the reserves or even U19's would still serve their suspensions immediately. It is of course a ridiculous loophole that should have been fixed years ago and when it happens at such a crucial time of the year it reflects badly on the RFL's disciplinary processes.

It was needless, but didn't James Harrison escape a ban for this offence earlier this year as they deemed the contact unnecessary but passive as he was asking for attention? No idea what the usual punishments are for this offence these days or how they grade them. It's not comparable to Vaughan's offence (harsh as that outcome was).

That was the sort of game I was hoping for from a Wigan perspective. We've had it a bit easy in recent weeks and it's not a reflection of what playoff games are usually like. Last night was much closer to what we would expect for a semi-final and I think it highlighted some areas we need to work on, which is massively important at this time of year. I thought both teams showed their strengths in different areas. For me the Leigh pack was much stronger overall. I don't think our front row was as dominant as it has been in previous games and Amone and Mulhern were head and shoulders above our middle players. I thought tactically we got it right and played to our strengths. Smith and French put in some outstanding kicks even if they were kept quiet through our inability to dominate down the middle of the field. As for the ruled out tries, in an ideal world both would be given. For the Wigan try Lam initiates contact as Nsemba goes through and is playing for the obstruction call. He trails an arm to make it seem more obvious but for me if the defender initiates contact it should be play on. For the Leigh try I do have some sympathy for the video ref. The call basically hinges on whether O'Donnell runs at French's chest or the outside shoulder (regardless of how much contact there is) and arguably he runs at the left side of the chest and the outside shoulder. He's directly in the path of French and O'Brien when contact is made. The referee's on field call of no try means he probably got that right in terms of evidence to overturn, but everyone who loves the games knows French isn't significantly impeded by the contact and it should be a try. People shouldn't be too critical of the video ref, it's the on field call that causes most of these problems. Also, since the season proper is now over, well done Leigh on an incredible year. Team of the year and Lam is coach of the year without a shadow of a doubt. For all the mockery of the Leopard print (no, it will never not look tacky) the rebrand and the building of a strong squad has been a success.

Really looking forward to this game and seeing how the Catalans and Saints games go. I know it's not the biggest prize but 3 teams fighting for top spot and maybe 1st place changing hands a few times generates a bit of excitement when watching any sport. It's a strange situation because Wigan are favourites due to points difference and the fact that the top 3 are all favourites to win their game, but we're also by far the more likely to lose considering the opposition we face away from home. The fact we've beaten Leigh comfortably in the previous 2 games counts for very little in my opinion. Worst case scenario would probably be an easy win, as I don't think the week off helps us and not having a tough game prior just makes things worse. It certainly didn't help last year when we had reasonable form at the end of the season, battered a weak Catalans side only to struggle to throw anything (except Bateman's shoulder) at Leeds in the semi final. I think the best outcome is a hard fought win where we have to rely on good game management. I still think our style of play can make us a big vulnerable when the sensible choice is to play it simple but there have been some positive signs in that area in recent weeks. A loss would be frustrating but maybe a late reality check wouldn't be the worst thing after some fairly comfortable victories in the last 4 games (in fact 6 of the last 7 have been fairly comfortable).

It's really amateur stuff from the coaching team. It's the young players who have suffered and it's a horrible situation for them. Some of these academy players will have reached the age limit and won't carry on with the reserves next season so this could possibly be the last stage of their rugby league journey and it's been taken away from them. No blame goes to anyone other than the coaching team on the day. It's their responsibility. 12 subs haven't been allowed since about 2010, and John Duffy has had enough experience as a head coach to be able to count subs. I don't know what they could do but I hope the club makes some gesture to the academy players to try to make amends.

Miski should make the Dream Team for sure this year. I get it, there's lots of competition and Johnstone is nailed on for one place, but for me Miski pips both Charnley and Makinson in terms of consistency of high level performance, he's just flown under the radar because as you mentioned, he only got into the side during round 7 so wasn't high up in the scoring charts until now. He's been outstanding and it's not like he only scores walk-ins plus he's created quite a few tries for others. Nsemba is such a great talent. There aren't many young players who are as strong in the carry and it's not like he's a chunky player or a big bruiser, he's lean and athletic but physical enough to make good metres and strong in the tackle. Can't wait to see how he develops but I hope his friendship with KPP doesn't turn his eyes to the NRL before we see the best of him. Cas really didn't offer much aside from a good spell where we seemed to lose focus after an error by Field. Given they weren't mathematically safe from relegation at the start of the game Cas really lacked any sort of fight which probably says a lot about why they are 11th.

I think with Farrell it's been a deliberate effort not to go 100% right from the start of the year. It's what he usually does but he's had a history of picking up injuries towards the end of the year and that often costs us in the playoffs. I think he's been picking up form recently and is hopefully in good shape to play at his best. Byrne and Mago have gone from being our weakest props to our strongest props and that's made a huge difference. Byrne in particular seems to be carrying the ball much better than he did even just a month or two ago. I think there were about 3 occasions where he went into contact and knocked the defender to the ground and is finally making the impact you'd expect for someone of his size. Overall I thought it was a good performance from Wigan but the game was nothing special. Salford did defend quite well at times and their line speed was decent but they just didn't have enough quality in the pack. Hardly surprising when they line up with Singleton and Partington in the front row. Wigan fans are all too aware of their limitations and I thought Singleton in particular was just as poor as he has been for most of his time in Cherry and White. There were some entertaining tries at least. The try on half time was a bit of a howler and just goes to show what can happen if you switch off. It was obviously just a kick and hope so 3 players in the middle of the field chased the kick and ended up overrunning it and no one was focused on defending a kick return. You'd never do that in any other situation but because it was the last play they lost the plot. I understand why the rules are the way they are but I think I counted 3 penalties awarded for lifting a player into a dangerous position where the player was never actually in a dangerous position which is frustrating when watching. All things considered a decent result for Wigan. Salford just seem a bit too inconsistent at present.

I was impressed with the performance from Wigan but also have to acknowledge that Catalans were a long way from their best. Who knows what the reason for Catalans poor performance was but what I certain of is that if we play then again it's going to be a much harder games, so I'm under no illusions that this game will have much of a bearing on what happens come the playoffs. I did think Wigan had a hand in forcing Catalans to play poorly. Our defence was probably the best its been all year in the early stages where we coped well with the forwards. The Wigan pack looked comfortable and French and Smith had the ability to make an impact on the game. French has come in for a lot of criticism from Wigan fans but some of it just seems like confirmation bias. When our attack doesn't fire it's always because French isn't a 6 and it's bad for the team. We average more points per game with French at 6 than when others play there. He's a makeshift half due to the poor performances of others in that role and in that context his performances have been outstanding. One of the things that must have come up in the preparation for this game is Tomkins trying to influence the ref at every stoppage and not allowing him to do it. Farrell seemed to enjoy making sure Tomkins didn't get the chance to talk by himself and he got more rattled as the game went on. Not the classic encounter that I think most would have hoped for but I think that's the way things go in this competition. There are a lot of evenly matched teams but they don't necessarily play at their best when they face each other so you can get one sided scores either way.