Toby Chopra

It's perfectly reasonable to scrutinise the rumours (and that's all they are at the moment), and I too would share some concerns with a 10-team top league. But I'll always push back at a narrative that starts with saying the creation of Superleague was some sort of harmful event and if only we hadn't done that the game would be thriving. That in my view is 100% wrong. If we hadn't created a fully-pro top league and stayed a part-time sport scrambling around in dilapidated facilities then British rugby league would already be a distant memory. The idea that we could have survived the profound sporting, broadcasting, economic and social changes of the last 30 years without going full-time at the top is not credible in my view. Is everything rosy in the sport? No, of course not. But that's a collective challenge. And the disaster scenario you paint doesn't hold water in my book. Superleague did not kill off rugby below it in the last 30 years, and it won't do in the future. In the near term a successful top league is the only avenue we have to boost revenues into the sport, so although we must scrutinise any deal incredibly closely, whether it's IMG, NRL or something else, this is the only play we have.

In terms of Superleague? The RFL, not that much, beyond operational matters like reffing and disciplinary. I'd agree they didn't cover themselves on glory over the Salford debacle. But all the fundamental decisions such as season structure, commercial partnerships and TV deals, or how to promote the sport more widely, are done by either the clubs themselves, or RL Commercial. On whose board the SL and IMG have a majority.

I don't feel it was the RFL chiefs like Johnson and Sutton that were getting in the way of IMG it was the clubs themselves. But if the clubs vote to bring in the NRL because they don't trust themselves to run things then fine by me. But I'm not sure you'll get a majority for that when the crunch comes. Turkeys and Christmas and all that.

He's just repeating media talking points, as the truth is clubs are already responsible for how Superleague is managed and developed, and indeed chose to take the radical step with IMG only a couple of years ago, but didn't have the patience to stick with it.

I have to say that was the bit where I thought he didn't have a clue. Or if the real movers and shakers think that's possible then they don't have a clue either. I can see a case for NRL involvement in Superleague, but if they, or anyone else think it's going to be a magic bullet they're going to be sorely disappointed.

AIUI he's (Executive) Chair of the implementation committee - ie running the review - not chair of the RFL..yet.

What events have occurred since March 21 to change things?

Can this happen without getting approval from the RFL council? (ie a majority of the other clubs). Although disputed, the original Superleague, licensing, the Elstone episode and the IMG deal were all still ultimately carried out under RFL approval, with enough clubs beyond the direct beneficiaries seeing some value in them Arms can be twisted and palms can be greased to get people onside, but on the face of it I can't see why most clubs would approve a takeover of Superleague on these terms. So it's either not going to happen, or there's going be a hostile deal with clubs resigning from the RFL, which could be as catastrophic as the Superleague war down under.

Sure, but you can overstate these things. Some people find a way, some don't, and many still drive. And some have been complaining for years that Barton was too difficult to get to for the old Salford RL fan base, so is Moor Lane that much worse? In the end, we're not talking about ideal solutions, we're talking about a survival situation for a the club, or a phoenix club. If Swinton can make a go if it exiled down in Sale for several years, then I think a Salford phoenix could survive at Moor Lane. I'd wager they'd still be one of the better supported L1 clubs, although that bar is pretty low.

Swapping with Salford City into Moor Lane seems the obvious option. EDIT: Although looking at Salford City's poor crowds I think their dreams of needing a bigger stadium seem well off the mark.

I find I can't really get into it, but I know a few people from down here in Sussex who go up to see Guildford with their kids, and they consider it a fun, affordable family night out - and indoors in the winter!

Well, it's always financially tottering, teams come and go, but yes, it has about 10 teams, its average attendance is about 3000 per game and 75% of the players are from Canada and US. It's not necessarily a model for us as our Superleague is more successful and is largely played by UK players. But it does show how you make a team in a new territory successful.

I think your ice hockey example shows how you do it though, and why most of the L1 attempts to expand aren't the same and are destined to fail. The British hockey teams you cite have fully professional player lineups, most of them from North America, with local youngsters at best supplementing that on the edges. Playing in a closed shop league. At its most successful, this is what London Broncos were, and similarly Toronto, the best examples of blank slate expansion that we have. What they weren't is mostly local community players, converts from an adjacent sport, or players that hadn't made it in the professional grades up north. The model of putting part time teams in expansion areas, expecting them to source most of their players locally, and then compete with the northern teams, has been tested to destruction. Either go all in with full timers and rise quickly to the top (or go straight in at the top is my preference). Or play with local part timers in a regional league. One size fits all clearly doesn't work.

I have to say I agree with EagleEye here - there's a structural reason why part-time League 1 teams outside the heartland keep failing. That is, the inability to put together a team that's remotely competitive when you don't have access to the heartland part-time player pool. I'd actually for once like to see us show we've learned something, and say we don't want any more teams like that. And I feel comfortable saying that as a southerner who'll defend the principle of expansion to the hilt, as I've done many times. But expansion doesn't have to look like what we've always done in the past.

Agree. In terms of southern fans, anecdotally the CCF only attracts the real hardcore nowadays, I've given up trying to get a group together for it. Whereas I've already shifted six for the Wembley Ashes test.

To be fair, it's not an unreasonable statement compared to some we've seen flying around in recent weeks. It's reasonably measured and sympathetic. They have a view on what the best structure below Superleague is, and now that the one originally decided on is in flux, they've asked it be looked at again. Now that the longest trip is off the table, I wouldn't completely bet against a single league now being brought back.

Although you're right in principle Dave, in reality the agenda being put before the clubs isn't about future teams, it's about squeezing the current ones for everything we can to curry favour with RFL members.

It always seemed a bit of an odd choice to add a team last year just to fit a predetermined structure, when the chances of this happening were so high. But given most teams probably make a loss overall on their games with Cornwall, I guess L1 can run with 11 next year without any major financial impact on teams.

I also think there's been next to no publicity down here unless you're already following rugby league media - my friends didn't know it was happening until I told them. So I reckon a fair bit of that is the northern fans. We've barely scratched the surface of the London audience yet.

From what I can see most Hurricanes players are from the heartland, certainly the top 5 on the squad list are, including a bunch of ex-Bradford academy players. Which is great, but kinda proves the point, it shows that access to the heartland player pool is key if you want to succeed in the semi pro ranks. Birmingham is not that far from the heartland compared to Cornwall or even London, so I'd be interested in where they live, and what other work they do, if any. But great they're doing well, and I hope they can go up.

Yep

It's tempting to criticise Perez's big talking hucksterism, but without it Toronto and Cornwall would never have even got to game one, so on one level I'm grateful for the ride.

Got six for Wembley. Loads left in every block.

Professional rugby league outside the heartland will only work with full-time teams that are competitive. Otherwise, as we've seen countless times, isolated outposts can't develop quality in sufficient numbers to stop the losses racking up, interest inevitably wanes, and the writing is on the wall. We don't need semi pro clubs all over the place, a widespread community game and one sustainable SL club in London will do more for UK RL than half a dozen strugglers in L1.

I haven't had a code yet either, just the 'get ready' email yesterday.