Magic Superbeetle

Sailor has, I don’t think, ever been criticised for his performances at fullback. It’s only when playing at halfback has he been (rightfully) criticised, because, fundamentally, he’s not a halfback, nor well suited to halfback. What that means when Welsby comes back, I don’t know. As for Wellens, there are still bigger tests to come. Beat Leigh, and one of the remaining Wigan/ HKR games, then maybe theres enough there to justify Wellens in. The club has made its stance clear that Wellens is here until the end of the year at least and I think most fans have got behind that. That was a game we would have lost 12 months ago, and the team as a whole seem to have collectively taken the magic weekend fiasco as a turning point. We have some clear bright lights, Dagnall, Robertson, Delaney, Stephans, and the majority of our injuries (bar Welsby) should clear out in the next month, giving us some real quality in depth and competition for places. There are still some weaknesses, Lomax, and right back row (irrespective of who we play there) which means we’re never going to look polished in attack. But hey, we won a grand final with Mark Flanagan and Lance Hohaia in the halves, so you know what they say

Whats been wrong with Fedlt? Had a couple of injuries this year but been nowt wrong with his commitment- if anything he looks too ready to start a fight. Waqa was a bizarre set of circumstances, butt he fact is were discussing someones motivation for signing in August, not January like when Blake signed. It seems to be that the main problem, and the reason behind the latest interview is his wife struggling to get a visa following her .... ahem ... indiscretion. That may have changed things, but there was nothing wrong with his motivation prior to that.

Lets be fair, Saints are one of the worst offenders for not developing their own, I mean theres only Welsby, and Robertson, and Whitby, and Dagnall, and Sambou, and Vaughan (albeit for Salford) and Dodd (albeit whatever is going on at Souths) and Delaney and Stephans who have come through in the last couple of years. Theres really only Davies, and Penketh and Campbell, and Walsh, and the McGann brothers, and Keeley and Humphreys and Matagi in the academy with a reasonable shot of getting pro ...

Im sorry Delaney is a myth? In the 4 SL games so far this year hes averaging 120m per game, with an average carry of 8.6m, and 28 tackles. What more are you expecting from a 21 year old prop whose still got a LOT of physical maturing to do? He, Robertson and Whitby (whose not on the original list) have all fielded NRL offers before making their debut for Saints.

Where have you seen Saints signing Newman? Find it highly unlikely given how Robertson has started. If in a years time we cant renew Sailor, then maybe but would be amazed if its happening this season. If we were taking anyone from Leeds I would prefer Holroyd. Saints are clearing the decks rather than being forced by cap pressure. We expect a good few more out the door too. Hurrell, Ritson, Paasi (maybe), Mbye, Davies, Bennison (maybe). Should leave us all told with 4 non-fed spots. Most are replaced internally already, just need a few NRL standard forwards to fill some of the gaps.

One of those rare occasions where all sides are happy.

Really interested on opinions on how Dagnall and Whitby got on on Duel Reg today?

No you're right, Whitley was only at Saints during scholarship years before the Widnes academy. All the talk he did about coming full circle I had assumed it was academy. Robertson will be fantastic dont get me wrong, and make all of these lists in a years time, but right now has played 13 games. Richardson has a SL winners ring and no doubt injuries have taken their toll, I dont think he can be taken out just yet. Of course, Whitby is likely to overtake all of them in the near future. In fact I wouldnt be surprised if Dagnall is in there as well. Hopefully Jake Davies can break our poor run of backrowers too.

Welsby, Bennison, Robertson, Percival, Lomax, Lees, Delaney, Knowles, Whitley, Wingfield - I count 10 for Saints, and given the team Salford put out suspect theyre ahead of everyone. Dagnall, Stephans, Whitby, Burns to all be included if were going off 21 man squads as well.

I know he plays for Wigan but fairly certain Luke Thompson would make our homegrown 17! As would Ashworth, and as much as Robertson is absolutely one to watch out for, a fully fit Richardson (assuming this is how were doing it?) probably still makes it ahead of him. Also think its a toss up between Simm and Cross. And since were allowed players currently at the club Matt Whitley absolutely gets into the backrow. Saints academy; Very good at props and halfbacks, very bad at backrowers. Outside backs seem to come once in a generation.

1. As I understand it Briers doesn’t want a head coaching gig, as he thinks he doesn’t have the right temperament for it. He sees head coaching as needing to be hyper detail orientated week by week and game by game, and he much prefers working with individuals and “bigger picture” targets (like “make the attack better”). 2. He would have stayed in Aus but his wife is homesick, and already come back over. 3. He wouldn’t have come to Saints if it weren’t for his relationship with Wellens. Suggestion is that this has played a part in Wellens getting an extension.

Saints fans spoilt next season by having 2 wingers for the first time in 2 years. A centre and a prop to go.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/st-helens-lewis-murphy-super-29840701

Trust me when I say the root of Saints concerns stems from the attack. Too often this season we work ourselves into good position, don’t know what to do, get frustrated, Bomb it, lose our composure concede a penalty or 3 and then concede. Chase the game, still don’t know what to do in attack, and then completely meltdown. There are plenty of individuals that contribute to that and have individual poor defence (cough Ritson!) but between the incomings next season and much of the academy stepping up into backup roles next season (Robertson, Vaughan, Dagnall, Sambou, Whitby, Delaney, Stephans, Cowen should all get a similar amount of game time or more) should mean those players are largely forgotten.

Sambou and Dagnall are both two years away from being first team regulars (minimum - Sambou would have made his debut had it not been for injuries this year, Dagnall is last year of academy). We effectively needed to replace Makinson like for like to plug the gap until they’re ready. Fedlt is coming for less than Makinson is going to be earning at Catalans. We’re signing another winger anyway though who’s much younger if that makes you feel better? Briers will be in charge of our attack next year.

Getting a bit desperate there to see things that aren’t there. The knee joint is bending the correct way in a controlled and structured tackle. Given Hurrell knocked Luetele around like a pinball on the incident he did get a ban for, it can hardly be described as forceful, and Hurrell himself drops to his knees which is the RFL/ NRL recommended action in those situations. Honestly if that’s the best Leigh fans have to compare to Assiatas NFL linebacker technique I can only assume there’s either a group delusion over what Asiata does or they’re all on a collective windup playing dumb.

Are you forgetting Mbye? He would most likely come in for Dodd or Lomax for a long term injuries. Will Roberts, Robertson or Whitby would come in short term (probably the former as he’s a year ahead of the other two) depending on how much exposure they’re ready for.

Dayon Sambou (scored the long range try from the scrum against Salford in the friendly) and Jonny Vaughan (England u18s captain) are both centres tipped to go far (part of the reason we only gave Blake 1 year is to see how far they both develop as it’s possible one of them could be seen as first choice by next season). Owen Dagnall is a winger to keep an eye out for, though is a year behind Sambou and Vaughan and is a second year academy currently. Also wouldnt be surprised to see one of Roberts, Robertson or Whitby played on the wing, Eastmond style for a period, even though they’re primarily spine players. There is also the enigma that is Jon Bennison who’s still only 21, and I thought was seriously impressive against Huddersfield … but still seems written off as a long term prospect. Paasi was due back round 15 last I heard, and Wellens gave an interview recently to say he was on track, but wasn’t more specific than “the middle of the season”.

I can’t see how it can be; I can think of the Welsby 1 on 1 steal and the Lomax to Dodd pass (incorrectly) being called forwards as incomplete sets for Saints - just in the first half, which would bring down the completion rate. Unless there’s some ruling about why they wouldn’t count? That being said, it was a game with a really high completion overall and both teams should be credited for it.

Again, very suspect under the high ball kicked by Nathan Cleary, and very suspect under the high ball in Super League is two very different things. Especially when teams are kicking into the face of Saints defence which tends to be … ahem … in the face of the kicker. Everything about Blake strikes me as a confidence player, and we have tended to do well with those types of players over the last few years. Ritson was poor for Saints last season in all facets of his game and legitimately lost his place to Bennison and Hopoate (the latter of which was plodding to retirement). I don’t doubt he can improve with another offseason under his belt, but virtually all aspects need improvement, particularly positioning in both defence and attack along with the aforementioned late footwork. He was able to use his pace in the championship to cover those mistakes, but he got found out more than once. Even in the situation Blake drops a clanger once a game, I back Saints defence to manage that, and the benefit of returning to our attacking structures far outweigh the downside. On the flip side, if we stick with Ritson or Bennison as first choice, I don’t see significant improvement in our attack which is needed - as points difference was the difference between 1st and 3rd. Of course, no WCC distraction and an improved form of Dodd and Lomax may be enough to cover that gap, but I would be signficantly more confident with Blake returning the ball as well. Anyway, I’m conscious this isn’t a Saints thread so will leave it there. I’m sure there’ll be a best 17s thread a some point to debate ad infinitum, along with some more controversial Saints opinions I have (Knowles should move permanently to prop with Bell and Wingfield rotating at Lock. The rotation of Knowles, Lees, Walmsley and Delaney would be the best prop rotation in the league).

There’s a difference between getting trapped and generating momentum. The key difference between the players you mention (Ashton, French etc) and Bennison or Ritson is even when they are trapped they still tend to use late footwork to land on their front, which helps generate momentum. Regan Grace was a master at this, so even when he wasn’t bursting through the line, he and Makinson could start Saints sets off quickly which had a cumulative effect on the set. Bennison and Ritson are too often completely dominated, generate a slow play the ball, when means defensive lines are ready for Makinson which stunts the progress of the set. So much of the way Saints play and attack is based on that momentum and the lack of it created by either Ritson or Bennison contributed significantly to our overall attack last season (compounded by an injured Lomax and woefully out of form Dodd). There’s no reason why either Bennison or Ritson can’t improve landing on their front in the off-season, but Blake offers a different way to generate that momentum.

if you have Saints TV theres an interview with Mike Rush recently thats well worth a watch. He says he thinks theres a dozen players between the academy cohort thats just graduated and next years who can make a full time career out of professional RL and theres 4-5 who can go on to international level or higher (comparing to Jack Welsby) - he also thinks 2 players will get their debut this year which our fans will be raving about. Well worth a watch

He is still at Saints, but is still on an academy contract as last year he was a first year. This year is his second year, and fully expect him to get a first team contract and squad number at the end of the year, along with Robertson, Whitby and Roberts the younger along with a few others Wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if he still did get his debut next year, but theres a lot of people ahead of him at the moment. Another that really big things are expected from, its just about introducing him at the right time.

You're thinking of Jumah Sambou, who indeed you are correct signed for Oldham. Its a shame, it was entirely possible he would have gotten his debut ahead of Bennison at Leeds if he hadn't have been injured. I hope he has a clear run at Oldham as theres a good player in there. However I was actually referring to Dayon Sambou, Jumahs younger brother, who has just been promoted from the academy; https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2023/11/02/academy-graduates-join-first-team/ Dayon has every award under the sun at academy level (iirc he won MoM for England u18s vs France), and his only challenge in getting into the Saints team will be getting ahead of Vaughan whose also a centre. I personally hope he does as hes a better technical player than Vaughan imo (though Vaughan is miles ahead in mental attributes and part of the leadership group representing all young players). There are a lot of exciting players coming through at Saints at the moment, Wellens' challenge is maturing them to a point that they can achieve their potential as first teamers whilst continuing the level of success Saints fans expect. This, in my opinion is why Blake for 12 months is really clever. A longer deal would have become a problem for the players stepping up, not signing anyone would have over exposed them potentially too early.

I mean, Bennisons bigger problem is Robertson, Roberts and Whitby all coming through the academy in the spine and all potentially challenging for a starting spot in the next 3 years. All three are incredibly highly rated by the Saints coaching staff. As a fullback Bennison hasn’t really shown much of a passing game which is critical in modern RL, and as a winger he can’t take early carries in sets and gets too easily dominated (same with Ritson which I am firmly in the Blake to play on the wing camp). There’s no doubting he is a talented RL player, who is capable of some highlight reel stuff, and has the indefinable talent of being in the right place at the right time (as scoring in the 2022 semi and grand final shows), and a likeable lad to boot. I just don’t know what his position is. If he does gain some weight and strength over the offseason, and can develop some footwork at the line he could make it as a winger, or maybe even centre if he bulks out more. But competition for places is only a good thing and I’m sure Bennison, Ritson, Davies, Sambou and Vaughan will all be pushing Blake and Hurrell for their spot.