Sports Prophet

Turned his back on a certain Kangaroos selection to play for Tonga. Eligible for NZ too as the nation of his birth, the Tongan heritage has won his heart.

At a guess, happy to let Lam steady himself back from injury in the Championship.

You say “chipping in” as if my point of view is of less importance and/or of less value than what you have to say. I am not “chipping in” any more than you are “chipping in”. I feel I am demonstrating a very well reasoned position, albeit an opposing one to your own. To the more obvious point you made with this opening, you are again either overlooking, or ignoring the fact I gave aspect to the sport of soccer in both England and Germany and again gave an opinion that the international game is of no consequence to the popularity of the EPL and Bundesliga. See… So no, I wasn’t “chipping in” and the “massive oversight”, I beg to differ, is your own.

I beg to differ, but that’s ok. I don’t expect either of us to convince each other. The NSWRL grew to become the ARL and then amalgamated with News Ltd interests to become the NRL. What do you reckon of the NRL merging with SL to become the global governor of the professional club game?

We’re you local when the Norwich City Saxons we’re around @Eddie?

Biggest Cricket game in the world now? IPL. Big Bash is Cricket Australia’s cash cow. Is it the same for whatever ECB version is? Ice Hockey? NHL Basketball? NBA Gridiron and AFL do rather handsomely without the requirement of international fixtures. MLB, another great league. All club competitions. Lets look at another group that very recently tried the international angle over the club angle… A1 GP originally promoted as the World Cup of Motorsport. Dead in less than 10 seasons. Didn’t come close to F1. So there are great examples of sports that have club competitions that dwarf international competition. We even have an example that saw a gap in the market in Motorsport, yet the “international” gimmick failed. Six Nations doesn’t succeed because they are international fixtures. It succeeds because it is an excellently executed piece of marketing making these fixtures so much more than the actual match itself. It must be, because the product is appalling. So yes, soccer is the largest sport in the world and yes, the international game is huge, but just because it works for that sport, doesn’t mean it works for RL. In fact, I would say the domestic leagues throughout the world draw more eyeballs and media attention than the World Cup. The World Cup is not what makes the EPL and Bundesliga popular competitions globally. They are popular because of their own initiative. I’m not dismissing the power of international sport. I’m not saying RL shouldn’t try to improve the international game either. What I don’t believe is that the international game is the messiah to save us from the diminishing footprint of RL in the UK.

I often contend this point that internationals are the vehicle for the growth you want. Personally, I feel the club game is a far more suitable a vehicle to increase the profile of RL in England and the surrounding nations.

double post

Davis Cup is a national representative competition as much as international rugby league is. No promising tennis junior grows up wishing to win Davis Cup… anymore. That wouldn’t always be the case. Davis Cup profile was once as big as any Grand Slam. Any accusation of me cherry picking sports as an example is neither correct or relevant. I never once said that all sport models match my case. But if you did read my posts just earlier, you would see I did highlight football and RU as two sports that have travelled different paths. What I did was give an explanation though why I think those sports travelled different paths. See below quote which you have overlooked. In any case, you did present a solution which is what I did ask you… I absolutely agree. Should the RFL and the IRL see eye to eye, then they should each be planning their own calendars and developing neighbouring countries to a position where the likes of France, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Lebanon et al can give the English regular competitive fixtures. At present, without the NRL stars, none of those nations really represent a strong challenge to England’s status as the best nation in Europe. So that in itself brings its own obstructions. Very few NRL players are going to risk injury, representing a heritage European nation for lunch money outside of a World Cup. So again, the NRL hold all the cards for the foreseeable future. Mid season internationals against a nation that is heavily dependent on NRL players. Forget about it. So, for the short term future, this leaves post season internationals/series as far as I am concerned. The biggest carrot to dangle the likes of NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and PNG is a revenue share model. Unlike models of the past, where England would host touring nations and pay them a pittance of the profits. The hurdle I see is that England would be the only healthy pay packet on tour. French tests may bring in a tiny profit, but only a smidge if it did. Any other Euro nation hosting a Pacific Island nation would be a negative financial experience, for governing bodies that don’t have a spare dollar in the first place. So that leaves all the pacific islands chasing a three test series against England, to maximise revenue and in turn, drastically reducing playing opportunities for multiple touring nations. The alternative, would be a four/five nations series that the RFL and FFR XIII would need to bankroll the event and offer large pay packets to touring nations. Inviting the Kangaroos would be a double edged sword. They would certainly boost crowds, however, would want a larger slice of the profits as they are the drawcard. It’s not an easy puzzle to solve, but back to your solution, it really is down to improving the competitiveness of neighbouring countries so that Test matches can be arranged that prove a formidable matchup and in turn brings more paying spectators through the turnstiles than 7000 people at LSV. Not a quick solution unfortunately.

IRL Calendar is due imminently. You will see fixtures set after that

Thought you were talking about Perth there.

Which part, the lack of players in Perth or the weakening of the All Blacks?

The Davis Cup is a team sport, but yes, we can overlook other sports if you wish. I can appreciate the frustration you feel regarding the NRL “blocking” other nations from competing (which they do not do). What do you think the reasons are for the NRL doing this and how do you think these obstacles can be overcome?

Actual tests. Tennis may have player touring the world as individuals, but this doesn’t escape the fact that the international representative arm of the sport and the public interest in that type of competition has drastically diminished in the advent of professional sporting interests.

I was reinforcing your point on future internationals having seen @Oxford question you. My example with tennis related simply to the Davis Cup. A tournament once held in the same regard as any Grand Slam, only different as it was players representing their nation, instead of themselves. Similar to RL, the “international game” of tennis swiftly declined as the professional arm of the sport gained greater influence and power. Not all sports have fallen in this way. RU and soccer are great examples of sports that has an international game that survived the increasing power of the professional game. I put this down to strong governance from their respective international governing bodies, World Rugby (I will never stop hating that name) and FIFA. We all know that the IRL has nowhere near the influence on its own game as those two organisations have on their own.

And the one common factor in every example is the growing business/professional nature of those sports.

The international game isn’t ignored. There will be a WC that takes place this year. Australia will play tests before the following World Cup. Just not as many as most on this forum would like. Per the edit in my previous post tennis, basketball, ice hockey, baseball and cricket all have examples of compromised international events and/or calendars, due to domestic or alternate interests.

That’s how this works Dave, you give a point and you justify it. I wouldn’t call it a weak justification. Some of the biggest sports leagues and sports stars in the world ignore the international game because of an unfavourable risk v reward balance. That’s a fact and demonstrates other multi billion dollar leagues justifying their decisions in the same manner. We see it in tennis, basketball, ice hockey, baseball and cricket.

Forgot about Cheyse Blair. Who does he play for and how is his form?

That profit remains to be seen. Do you think the NRL would be cancelling anything that was so financially rewarding to them? You are right about us being in the business of playing footy. The NRL achieves that objective for around 36 weeks in the year already. The international game is not the NRL’s product. It presents a risk to their product. The ownership and reward balance is not in the NRL’s favour. You are right also, that risk averse mindset does lead to a lack of ambition. Even moreso when the NRL has to relinquish control of how any such international event is delivered. I dislike it as much as you do Dave, but that’s the reality as I see it.

I want to get on board with being angry with the NRL for the tragic state the international game is in, but I can’t escape the reality of the matter. The success of international RL is not the responsibility of the NRL. It is not the NRL’s remit. Furthermore, the international game in its present state, does not present a lot of opportunity for the NRL to deliver to it’s remit. So, what great reward does the NRL gain from organising and participating in international representative fixtures whilst it battles a multi million dollar code war against a very popular and formidable opponent? Many of us (myself included) would love to see a four/five nations series played in every WC cycle. However, I hazard a guess that the benefit of a minimal financial TV contract for fixtures being played at an obscene hour to capture the required Australian viewership, is vastly outweighed by the risk that the NRLs best players could be injured and in turn missing from participating in its cash cows, namely the club game and SOO? That risk vs reward is the reality of the matter and until there can be a little more certainty around improving that balance, I can totally understand a business decision to focus very little on the international game, no matter how much I dislike it.

Groundbreaking and fearless. I love this idea. Oh wait, no I don’t.

Live on Aus tv, will it be worth the early morning watch?

He won’t have any Origin football ahead of him if he plays for England.

Sometimes. I am only being flippant. I think Eng v France is a good idea although in this day and age I feel any crowds of sub 40k for a home England test looks very miserable to the casual viewer.