Sports Prophet

We were told by the IRL there was Middle East interest for the 2026 WC.

Because the NRL are focusing their attention on being the dominant force in the Pacific. Neither winning or losing against England adds value to the NRL and the game of RL in Australia. But to get more than 25k fans will require a reasonable spend to promote the event. Whereas Tonga vs Samoa at Eden Park sells out immediately and becomes a financial win whilst furthering rugby league dominance in the Pacific. I just hope they give the England tour a massive promotion. Both the RFL and the NRL working collaboratively to ensure that tour is a success.

I mentioned on another thread, playing in front of 15k in London for an international against weaker opposition in the shadow of three Twickenham sellouts against old and long rivals would simply demonstrate how small time RL is. Avoid the embarrassment in London. Save it for the Kangaroos.

As noted on another thread, in the RFLs shoes, I would be pursuing opportunities in the Middle East for a two match series against Lebanon or tri-nations with France thrown in.

In any case, a two game series against Lebanon in the rich Middle East or tri nations with France included in the same location is something I would be proposing for 2024 to the various sports authorities of the Persian Gulf.

My original post on the subject was mostly a demonstration of the RFLs lack of care for the nurture of a European structure when it was going through its most successful period. Instead of allowing the tournament to continue with its development into a consistent bi-annual event with growing corporate supporters, the RFL simply cherry picked the two best nations from that event to serve their own needs. The tournament lost a lot of credibility. The RFL demonstrated themselves just as selfish as the NRL, but with far less vision and aptitude for execution to make their selfish actions either valuable or sustainable.

The progress through the late 2000s and then the 2010 European Cup was above the 2010 Euro Shield featuring East and West groups including Russia, Ukraine and Latvia in one and Serbia, Czech and Germany in the other. This programme from 2008 to 2010 had all been part of RLEF plans since 2007 and the continuation of this plan was a repeat of the 2012 European Cup, with lower tiers below on a promo and relegation basis. The reason why 2011 didn’t feature any meaningful activity is because below the 4 Nations, there were World Cup Qualifiers taking place, featuring Italy, Lebanon, Russia and Serbia. So to say the likes of Lebanon and Russia had fallen off is not accurate at all. It is true the RFLs underwhelming 2012 Autumn Series depleted the European Cup of its two strongest nations the year before the WC and the momentum was all in one swoop was dead. Mine was a first hand experience in all of these events.

whilst I don’t argue with what you have written, you are neglecting the lower tier European activity underneath the Euro Cup which took us to 2009. That 2009 event was off the back of some great Bowl and Plate style events. That Euro Cup was the culmination of a lot of work under the guidance of Kevin Rudd. The only reason why 2012 was announced as Knights, Scotland and Ireland is exactly because the RFL chose to organise a typically poorly executed and underwhelming event which included two nations which were already penned in for the 2012 European Cup.

I’m not mistaken, the 2012 European Cup was reduced to an England Knights, Scotland and Ireland event, when it was originally planned as a repeat of the 2010 event. It wasn’t all over the place at all. RLEF European international series were starting to get consistency in the late noughties. I know the Euro Cup wasn’t hosted in 2011 and I know Wales qualified for 2011 4 Nations because they won 2010 European Cup. It was a positive development and something I don’t dispute. It’s for that exact reason, the next edition of the Alitalia European Cup was to be in 2012. That 2012 European Cup was scuppered to a pathetic affair including just England Knights, Ireland and Scotland, because of the RFL swooping in to offer France and Wales to play in what was dubbed the Autumn International Series. That hastily organised affair killed the progress of the European Cup.

Yeah I understand that, but it’s not like there aren’t other examples throughout the UK and the rest of Europe where club competitions are picking up respectable viewership and corporate backing. Top14 has a booming competition with no requirement of French Rugby to prop it up. Basketball has a thriving European domestic league outshining international competition, as does Ice Hockey and you may know better than me, but even Netball in UK I suspect will be more prolific at the domestic scene, over the international scene. So whilst I partly do agree with your thoughts on the international aspect, I disagree that it would be the outlier you think it is. We have demonstrated already big cities want a part of it. Big cities want their profile to continue to rise. As I explained, at the turn of the decade, SL was within 2 years of potentially having London, Toulouse and Toronto all in the competition. Add Perpignan and the big RL city names like Leeds, Hull, Wigan and St Helens and you have more than half the competition either coming out of a major city, or is a large town with a thriving background to pull in excess of 15k regularly. That kind of competition and spread can snowball and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it capture the imagination of other large cities. The growth potential for RL in Europe is far, far greater than it is for the Pacific.

This whole Autumn/Spring international window only serves to reinforce the priority for SL to become a beacon of RL (and rugby in general) in Europe. The NRL has demonstrated what a commercially successful domestic club operation can deliver. The RFL can’t afford to have their financial future be dependent on the international game. SL needs to be at a point where big cities are vying for the next place in an expanding competition, similar to Brisbane, Cairns, Port Moresby and Perth getting serious commercial and government backing for a spot at the NRL table. The potential this decade started with saw clubs in big cities like Toronto, Toulouse and London all pushing hard for a place in SL. RL in Europe never saw so much potential since the launch of SL. Covid put the handbrakes on somewhat, but the world is recovering and SL must break out of its small northern town mentality which shackles the sport of RL in Europe from realising its full potential.

It’s time for the RFL creative… the realities are: 1. No European opponent is going to draw a crowd in England. The only place I see worth it for England to play a Euro opponent is in France. I find 15k for England v Tonga embarrassing. PNG or Fiji, just forget about it. 2. The only international opponents proven to bring worthy crowds in England for a series is Aus and NZ. Neither are coming in 2024. The IRL noted there was interest from the Middle East for the 2026 WC. For a potential good pay day and early entry to the Middle East market, an England v Lebanon 2 game series, or even better, England, France, Lebanon tri-nations in the Middle East could well bring some wealth into all three organisations.

I was reminded by a colleague of how well the RLEF were doing, growing the sport through Europe in the late noughties. This culminated in 2009 with a revisited and revamped six nation European Cup with France, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Serbia and Italy. The four week, two group tournament finished with all six nations playing in Wales. It was a fantastic demonstration which set the foundations for a new dawn of European RL for the next decade. In 2010, the RLEF secured a big sponsor by way of Alitalia and now France, Wales, Scotland and Ireland had a tantalising reward for winning the tournament, a qualification into the 2011 4 Nations. Long story short, 35,000 spectators attended the series, with 15,000 in Avignon and then 7,000 and 10,000 back to back in Albi. That event was to be repeated in 2012. Alitalia’s sponsorship agreement was for two European Cups and more sponsors were coming on board following the success of 2010. The RLEF had single handedly in about 5 years, developed European RL far greater than England, France or IRL ever had. This is not a story which ends well. In international RL, it rarely does. Instead of the RLEF building on that early success with an even bigger and better 2012 edition, with a growing list of continental corporate partners, the RFL swooped in and tore the tournament apart by instead offering France and Wales places in a poorly concocted tri nations. The RFL destroyed the whole European Cup concept, with all the corporate partners walking away from RL, Alitalia didn’t even have the sponsorship honoured and for what? 7,000 fans in Hull and another 7,000 in Salford a week later for the final. I wonder what the vitriolic NRL bashers on here feel for the RFL’s actions here. To your point @UTK, England and the RFL are very much reaping the seeds they have sown.

I don’t understand how Skolars as a community grassroots club are in any different position from any other grassroots club and the costs of participating in the amateur game in London and the South East. So what is this money actually for and how will what it’s funding, become sustainable so the club aren’t reaching out for future public funding. Surely the club, having made to step away from the professional ranks, needs to change its revenue and cost structure to be sustainable as a grass roots club. To be honest, I have always found Skolars to be a halfway house without the necessary backing or leadership to succeed at the professional level and by this fundraising scheme alone, I am not convinced the club is well placed to shift its model to become a sustainable grass roots amateur footy club.

It’s not an event, so I wouldn’t expect it to draw many. I wouldnt take an England V France game to London until they have beaten England I think it would directly correlate with the French competitiveness. In my opinion, France are not resourced enough to develop as much as England can over the next five years, so my concern is that the fixture will remain a non-event.

Correct. Smaller ground in London in the shadow of a sold out Twickenham will only further serve the southern narrative that RL is the considerably smaller event than RU. With no reasonable follow up opportunities until up to 3 years later, consolidate the North and maybe pursue the midlands. Return to London for the opener of a Kangaroos tour in ‘27.

Starting with weaknesses. 1. This is not a WC and will not have the extra pull of a WC. 2. Samoa do not exactly have the same pulling power of Germany or Brazil in Soccer or All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks in RU (see Autumn series 2024). 3. The RFL has still not managed to sell out heartland venues outside a WC for years. Moving to opportunities 1. England RL can become the Rugby team of the nation, servicing the north, east, south and west, whilst the RFU play solely out of Twickenham until the next WC they host. 2. There is an in house marketing agency in IMG and confirmation of opponents 12 months in advance. Plenty of opportunity to deliver high standard promotional material. I think there is credit to St James Park opening the series, the home of the WC opener where the two teams played only 2 years prior (by the time the fixture comes round). In other years or against other opponents, I would say go for London, but the RFU have 2024 sewn up with four consecutive weekends hosting the biggest drawing southern hemisphere nations at Twickenham. Give London a miss. It will still be there for a bigger and better day. Get to the rugby starved midlands instead for game two at Coventry where RL has been before and then finish it all off in the centre of the north at the Etihad in Manchester. Two 50k+ stadiums in the north and a 30k + venue in the midlands. There will be difficulty getting traction and media attention in London next year against the RFU’s schedule, whereas hosting outside the capital will allow cheaper marketing opportunities to local press and broadcasters.

He is a go getter and a great man at the top, but I don’t think any other code fears PVL or the NRL. The AFL pretty much run their own race. They formulate their own strategy against their own objectives and I don’t think the NRL really features in those objectives. Neither are other sports bodies like the FA, NBL or Netball Aus in competition with the NRL. Aus Rugby I suppose would have some concern, but I anticipate they’ve had concerns long before PVL arrived. In any case, the preparations seem to be coming along nicely for the season opener. Would love to go.

My plan would be to first put a long drawing defensive line to the north without tying up too much resources, in order to make a flanking attack into Wales from the north. As they move south, I would send a second forces from North Devon following a 24 hr bombardment of Swansea, taking the city before encircling Cardiff from the north east and west and securing the capital. After this, whilst still holding the line on the border with Scotland, I would reinforce supporters in Northern Ireland to advance southward whilst heavily bombarding Dublin with a sea and air power offensive, dropping parachute forces to the west of the city and seize power by capturing the capital. With the Irish and Welsh restrained, this would leave an all out northern advance on Scotland as the final objective, targeting Edinburgh to wave the white flag as our forces encroach on the city.

I don’t think we need to get carried away with the comments. Let’s not forget, this is a Channel 9 broadcast where the primary objective of the broadcaster will be to beef up their own product. Of course they are going to big up the NRL as they have millions invested in the game and not a cent on SL. As for England beating a team of NRL stars is concerned, I wouldn’t expect that Tongan outfit to be making a dent on the NRL top 8, so “stars” may be stretching it. In saying all that, NZ proved yesterday they are up for the fight against the Kangaroos. I expect England would be too.

The no look pass was unnecessary there. Complete the chain properly and they score

I reckon that simply makes Ponga more interested in vying for a Kangaroos jumper

Edit* Wrong thread

I mean, I think they will lose and Kiwis will win it comfortably by 22

Injured