Tommygilf

Really???

Smith is between a rock and a hard place: either it is his team and he's telling them to play like that, or it's Hetherington's team and he can't complain to his boss about all the money he has spent. FWIW I think it's somewhere between the two. The squad churn, particularly in the halves and backs, seems very much associated with what Smith wants. Signing say Matt Frawley however seems much more Hetherington-esque. When this thread was first started he was a left field, cheap(ish) punt (very similar to Oxen/EPS getting the kit rights incidentally). I remember saying myself that he had as much credentials as say Justin Holbrook prior to joining Saints for example, and it clearly could work well. His first 6 months or so were about righting the ship, which he achieved by basically letting the players have a bit of fun and play with no pressure or expectation. It got us to a Grand Final with decent form. Since his first pre-season however, it's started to look like he's in over his head. Our attack has had zero structure. He's tried things out like no captain and no linespeed (and then corrected them) as if he is at a lower league club not one of the largest clubs in the country. I was fully behind giving him the benefit of the doubt to start with. He had a good write up within the sport and the Q Cup looked like a decent CV. I think after 2 preseasons and nearly 2 years, we can make judgements.

Is it his team or is it not his team this week I can't keep up?? Doubtless its the refs fault anyway...

As far as I know, he is SFC only, with the mutual majority ownership being another party. I agree that isn't really the image the Eagles want to project, indeed even by having the womens and wheelchair sides based there too it won't be true either. However, to a certain extent he is perhaps being a little uncomfortably too close to the bone for the situation and the current reality of many part time RL clubs really?

As a "younger person" I think the national side is our best vehicle for getting new younger people involved in the game. The club game, barring a few exceptions, is regardless what anyone says, incredibly parochial. Cas or St Helens for example are massive deal in Castleford or St Helens, but outside of those places there is very limited reach currently, and arguably limited appeal. My particular experience attending England games, mainly in the 2010s, has been one that saw good matches at big stadiums followed by a broad range of fans. The worst England matches have been the ones set up to fail with low expectations and lower returns (see the Tonga tour, CNAS etc.) England RL is a far more attractive brand particularly in the Capital than our club game seems to be. England always get good Crowds in London and for those without club affinity (for the above stated reasons) it offers them a team to get behind. Ideally, I would have England play at least 1 London test each year minimum. The complete neglect shown towards the international game by the past 2 leaders of the RFL, who were blinded on a nostalgia trip of 3 match tours, allowed the budding International game to collapse under their watch, is a travesty.

I get all that. I wonder if they will try that ir similar before making it a Group Stage/knockout comp.

Should say 2022 for the Cas match Regardless, the attendances speak for themselves.

I genuinely don't think price is the problem to be honest, we just don't have a massive culture of one off match ticket purchases, or latent unfulfilled demand.

They used to add kids matches on when I was a junior member at the Rhinos, so there must be a system or formula in place. I also think there is going to be a move to change the Cup format too which will guarantee home cup games in the near future.

I'm not sure how many members the Rhinos have currently, but between the larger attendance and higher (I believe) prices for the league game, it could be that it is not that much of a difference financially. Plus I'd wager corporate was significantly higher in the League match too.

7108 Over 15k literally a week before. If that doesn't show the impact of not being included on Season tickets I don't know what will.

On the open draw of the cup too, for a fair few lower division clubs, playing in a half full SL ground is better for them financially than playing at home because of the revenue split rules. Take Wigan vs Sheffield last weekend, whilst it was a pretty low attendance for the former, for the latter, it was one of the biggest attendances they'll play in front of all year, and is nearly double the capacity of their current home ground. For the likes of Sheffield etc, the financial reward is worth even giving up home advantage.

He is immensely risk averse, which to be fair has served him well. Teams go far in tournaments by not losing and he is clearly a fan of playing the percentages at the international level. Tactically I think he is very limited, though arguably that is the nature of international football vs club football with the amount of time a coach has with his players. He clearly is defensively minded. I do find it very frustrating that we can have some incredibly talented players like Bellingham, Grealish and Foden, an embarassment of riches most countries would want, that appear to consistently be stunted by the style of play. I don't blame him for being loyal to the players he has been loyal to, they have served him well and are his men. He's clearly also a man who understands that the best on field 11 players or best 24 for a squad don't necessarily equate to most success. He's picked "good tourists" and dumped those who have stepped outside of that - Ben White for example. Talent isn't everything to him, and it has made the England team feel much more likeable than it has appeared in the past 2 decades or so. Its been more successful than any approach before or since (save one tournament in 1966 or maybe Italia 90). In 2018 he had the benefit of low expectations. In 2020(1) we reached the final and got beat by a similarly defensively minded side, 2022 we only just got beat by arguably the best squad in the world. We also won a penalty shoot out in 2018 - so he's doing something right. Its difficult to say what happens next really. England are one of the best in Europe and the World, certainly good enough to win international tournaments. Southgate's style seems to get us to these big games, but I'm not convinced it allows us to win them.

Saints are good, but not unbeatably so. We had/have a passive structure in defence, under Smith since his first full preseason, it seems to be one of his philosophies. It did get less passive last season as it went on.

Sacking Radford on Sky was enough indication of that...

A yanks take... https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGe5UYg8k/

Still nothing announced from Leeds vs Saints.

In the late 19th century and 20th century, Knockout Cup competitions were the money spinners; its why we ended up with so many of them in loads of sports. Things are different now it seems.

Totally agree, the situation is really poor atm and it looks naff.

It's fine mate, I wasn't there all daytime!

Only the most penitent man shall pass.

It is the number 1 factor without doubt. I know from attending LUFC cup matches and having mates at other football clubs where league stadium capacity is well below demand, the cheap tickets for cup games thing works to an extent but even then they have to try hard and aren't guaranteed attendances as good as league games (often relying on larger away followings than usual too). And that is for clubs where demand outstrips supply! A lot of our club's whole attitude to the cup has the feel of pre-season friendly, and crowds reflect that too alongside the Season ticket point. Leeds vs Saints last night was in Leeds' regular well attended match slot, against a big side who we (according to some) only just lost to last week, and in a knockout comp a decent few rounds into the season but not so much you could argue for over saturation. It couldn't have been better really from a marketing POV. It's really poor that these games aren't getting good attendances. It really would not surprise me to see the solution being something that packages Cup games into Season Tickets, and perhaps in a way that guarantees a certain number of matches too.

For any that say the cup not being on Season tickets isn't an issue: a visual comparison of a match between the same teams in both comps, 1 week apart.

Leeds vs Saints not announced last night apparently...

He said that 2 deflections and a missed barge, which was more what I was personally getting at. As much as it was a specific bait question, he did bite. I always think as well that whilst Smith makes a lot of (sometimes good) points about the refereeing, he seems to never say "it was the same for both sides". Its worrying how poor the attack was. "Actually our defence of our tryline was good" (paraphrasing) was a silly comment to make after that result. Equally, in a Competition where just 3 wins gets you to the final, for Leeds to be out in our first game for is it the 4th time in a row (certainly the 2nd time with Smith as head coach), is poor. This is "his team" now, there can't be any excuses.