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Moove last won the day on July 21 2019

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  1. Presumably you'd be keen to see the RFL reimburse SL for the circa £6m they receive from them each year? Thought not. It was never really an actual split. SL are still part of the sport, the RFL are still the governing body, the RFL are still part of the SL 'company', the RFL are still paid for their services, the Championship and L1 still get their cut, the league structure still has to be agreed between SL and the RFL. The only thing which really split was the commercial operations of SL. Aside from that it's just a stick for people to beat SL with. Funny how criticising the RFL is back in vogue too now it's not SL doing it.
  2. I know he's been pretty durable but I can't see even Jammer making it to the 2112 grand final ?
  3. Yeah. He's retiring at the end of the season and returning back to Australia. Quite happy with this to be honest. Still putting in decent metres in a more intense competition and gives us a bit of leadership we've been missing for quite a while. Nowhere near the level we've seen from him in the past but won't need to be doing 70-80 minutes like he used to anyway. Will do the younger players the world of good.
  4. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/james-grahams-st-helens-swansong-22214358 I'd be happy with that
  5. Johnstone and Makinson are going to have to up their game!
  6. Disappointed in the club statement, no need for the comments on wages. I can imagine it's difficult when you've already put so much into the club and someone isn't meeting you (or their teammates and club staff) half way, but in that position I think you just have to keep schtum. It won't look great when it's talked about in interviews Thompson does with the Australian media and if he gets homesick in a year and wants to come back there's no way it'll be to Saints now. Disappointed in Thompson too though to be honest. Not so much on leaving early - from a rugby point of view why wouldn't you when we've no idea what the rest of the year looks like for us. We could be another spike away from the season being canned altogether. And similar to when Jammer left I don't think he really owes us anything on the field (although a CC winners medal would have been nice). He's not like an Eastmond who left at the first £ sign after achieving nothing. But morally it's a bit disappointing to see the refusal to support the club through a collective salary reduction. Personally I'd have found it a bit difficult to go back into the club in and around the shop staff, coaches, physios etc knowing they'd all taken reductions or been furloughed while you'd demanded to be kept on your very comfortable salary. Even more so when you know you're getting a huge pay rise in six month's time anyway. That's his prerogative I guess but it does leave a sour taste. Will be difficult to replace, although an opportunity for Matty Lees to step up. It took Thompson coming through before we'd really replaced Jammer so hopefully the club have learned from the (many) recruitment mistakes made from those years in-between.
  7. The only mammals which can fly too. Intriguing creatures really. I've watched far too many episodes of QI during lockdown ?
  8. No nerve hit I can assure you, it was a simple reply to your two posts where you wanted less owners of the likes of McManus based on profit levels in comparison to Hetherington at Leeds (who has also had 5 years longer to attain that stable position). But to be against owners absorbing losses whilst simultaneously growing them into a sustainable business (as McManus has) then that seems quite optimistic. Without a sudden influx of central funding or commercial income into the sport to turn loss making clubs into profitable enterprises overnight, then there isn't a huge alternative. The problem is more an ownership model of absorbing losses without growing the club over the longer term.
  9. That's a pretty ignorant and simplistic view. Saints were in severe danger of going bust prior to his ownership. Aside from covering losses himself, McManus has also overseen the financial transformation of the club, moving from Knowsley Road (which at one point was estimated to be costing the club £1m a year just to keep safe) to a brand new wholly owned stadium, attracted further external investment to avoid reliance on one individual, significantly increased revenue (by 60% in the period to which you refer) to a position of self sustainability with zero debt whilst also being one of the most successful clubs on the field. To do so in a sport which hasn't really experienced growth as a whole in that same period, in a region of very limited affluence is pretty impressive. For all his flaws and mistakes over the years, the idea that you want less people like that involved in the sport is ridiculous. Willy wanging ownership comparisons based solely on historical profit values is a petty and futile exercise.
  10. Stop being so pathetic with the nonsensical #truefan jibes and made up arguments. No one has claimed clubs shouldn't look outside their immediate towns. What people have done though is provide reasonable opinions as to why randomly focussing limited resources on Saints in Liverpool is unlikely to be worthwhile. Most of this has been based on first hand experience and the evidence of previous work in this area. Disagreeing with opinions is fine (although it would be useful to provide some substance occassionally) but stop inventing false arguments to give your own more weight. Gtf on ignore, troll.
  11. Unfortunately they're also yet to present a coherent alternative strategy of their own in the absence of one from the RFL.
  12. FWIW I actually think you could create a market for the sport in new places like a Liverpool or Manchester, but it's not going to be done by re-badging Saints and getting them to play a couple of games at Goodison. Clearly there would be commercial opportunities to a team like Saints and the wider sport having a foothold there - and I also don't think clubs should be limited by the boundaries of their towns. But for it to work from scratch somewhere like Liverpool where the 'build it and they will come' approach has been proven not to work, you're looking at a 10-15 year strategy with support from the whole sport. You're talking things like Saints, Wigan and Warrington joining forces on community outreach and schools programmes, supporting local amateur clubs, partnerships with the football clubs and other local organisations, long term commitments to taking events (e.g. derby games, MW, CC semis) to the city on the back of that with targeting ticketing, exposure to international RL etc. That has to go beyond just the game itself. Those events need to take over the city. And the big issue there is that all costs money - and a damn sight more than the sport can hope to have any time soon. So with limited resources surely the sport would be better off focusing on areas like Newcastle and York where there's already a foothold? Saints et al can focus on more effective community initiatives both inside and outside the town. Then look to expand on that as a whole sport together as income grows. In the last decade Saints have grown their revenues by 60% and delivered a new stadium despite the sport as a whole stagnating and a local area which is nowhere near fully tapped yet. Getting them to switch their focus to growing a new market in Liverpool would be utterly barmy.
  13. Listening to the relevant part of Carter's interview it's a mix of empty musings and misery. Frankly it sounds like I'm listening to someone who would feel comfortable running a semi-pro club at a lower level. No issue with that at all to be fair but I'm not sure that's someone who has the drive and ideas to help take SL and the wider sport forward over the next decade. This is the owner of one of the elite 12 clubs in the sport and he's saying "I've still not had it explained to me what the end goal is" in relation to expansion of the sport. Seriously? He's one of the people who should be bloody well deciding what expansion and growth should look like not having it explained to him like a child. If it doesn't include expanding beyond borders then make that call and present the alternative strategy. You would also hope to have seen some evidence of his own club's contribution to this growth of the sport through his tenure to add weight to his views but again that seems lacking. Particularly in contrast to Catalans whom he also doesn't see the point of and would seemingly swap for Leigh and his new buddy Derek in a heartbeat. The stuff around targeting Liverpool is something of nothing. There is clearly no real logic or thought process behind that comment with zero ideas on how he thinks that's going to be achieved (much like a number of similar nonsensical posts on this thread) or what the end goal would be. Hopefully he's not just hoping Saints will grow into new markets for him to hang on the coattails of. Simply re-branding the nearest team and chucking a few games at a city which evidence shows as having near-zero existing interest in rugby league is not a coherent strategy for sustainable expansion and growth. He does make a very good point in referencing Newcastle as a great example of organic growth - but that is totally at odds with what people are suggesting on here about Liverpool and what he himself throws out there with a foray into Liverpool and Cumbria. If he wants 'the next best thing to football' as a strap-line for RL's growth strategy over the next 10-20 years I'm not too bothered about that - although it sounds small-time and it would seem utterly stupid to throw away the growth in the south of France as Carter seems to advocate and the work being done in London by actively restricting the sport to the north of England. The more important thing is whether there's a sensible strategy and purpose behind it and seemingly there is none. Sadly that's nothing new as far as RL is concerned.
  14. Only just reading the thread so apologies if someone has already pointed this out to you but we've been there, tried that (Saints RL), alienated the existing fans who most certainly did notice, and changed the branding back. It isn't just a branding thing, it's an identity thing, and the evidence shows it is a massive thing to existing fans.
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