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INTRERNATIONAL REPRSESENTATION


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#61 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 06:57 PM

QUOTE (T Dub @ Jul 28 2010, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Saw five minutes of athletics tonight, a 100m heat.

One of the athletes with an American name was respresenting Austria, another representing Norway and a banned drugs cheat was representing GB.

Lets not lose our credibility to that extent

what's an american name?
Swarzenegger?
Sinatra?
garcia?
Two Rivers?

how can someone who is banned be representing GB? If you are banned you are not allowed to compete.

who should Kris radlinski have represented if the origin of your name defines your nationality?
What about danny Cipriani?
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#62 T Dub

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 12:35 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Jul 28 2010, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what's an american name?
Swarzenegger?
Sinatra?
garcia?
Two Rivers?

how can someone who is banned be representing GB? If you are banned you are not allowed to compete.

who should Kris radlinski have represented if the origin of your name defines your nationality?
What about danny Cipriani?


The start list for the 100m heats included:-
Ryan Moseley (Austria) - actually English (rather than American, my mistake, my assumption was that most black sprinters with Angliscised names that I hadnt heard of were probably American)
Saidy Ndure (Norway) - actaully Gambian
Dmirty Glushchenko (Israel) actually Ukranian
Franci Obikwelu (Portugal) actually Nigerian

Forom ths minute snapshot of one event it seems if you like your sport populated by soldiers of fortune, it seems track athletics is as good as any. If youre not good enough for your country, go and find a country you are good enough for.

Id hate this to be the case in RL

You know what I mean about Chambers.

#63 petero

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 03:26 PM

QUOTE (T Dub @ Jul 29 2010, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The start list for the 100m heats included:-
Ryan Moseley (Austria) - actually English (rather than American, my mistake, my assumption was that most black sprinters with Angliscised names that I hadnt heard of were probably American)
Saidy Ndure (Norway) - actaully Gambian
Dmirty Glushchenko (Israel) actually Ukranian
Franci Obikwelu (Portugal) actually Nigerian

Forom ths minute snapshot of one event it seems if you like your sport populated by soldiers of fortune, it seems track athletics is as good as any. If youre not good enough for your country, go and find a country you are good enough for.

Id hate this to be the case in RL


Quite so and thats the way it will all go, for as I said there is no logical ending to were this can lead to.

Good description that too " soldiers of fortune " wink.gif sums the entire charade up completely.
I just wonder how many of these bold athletes/sportsmen would be so keen on changes of nationality if they really had to face some proper bullets?

#64 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 05:39 PM

  • QUOTE (T Dub @ Jul 29 2010, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The start list for the 100m heats included:-
    Ryan Moseley (Austria) - actually English (rather than American, my mistake, my assumption was that most black sprinters with Angliscised names that I hadnt heard of were probably American)
    Saidy Ndure (Norway) - actaully Gambian
    Dmirty Glushchenko (Israel) actually Ukranian
    Franci Obikwelu (Portugal) actually Nigerian

    Forom ths minute snapshot of one event it seems if you like your sport populated by soldiers of fortune, it seems track athletics is as good as any. If youre not good enough for your country, go and find a country you are good enough for.

    Id hate this to be the case in RL


You know what I mean about Chambers.


no I don't know what you mean about chambers.
he cheated by using banned substances, was punished and served his punisshment: end of.

I take on board your views

but please don't assume that a person's name denotes where they are from.

Anthony Miniccelo is Australian
Rolf Harris is Australian
Kurt Sorensen is Australian
Mario Fenech is Australian

what's an australian name?

what's an English name?
Radlinski?
Butt?
Penkywicz?






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#65 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (petero @ Jul 29 2010, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite so and thats the way it will all go, for as I said there is no logical ending to were this can lead to.

Good description that too " soldiers of fortune " wink.gif sums the entire charade up completely.
I just wonder how many of these bold athletes/sportsmen would be so keen on changes of nationality if they really had to face some proper bullets?

all ptofessional sports people are soldiers of fortune.

your last sentence is as childish as your previous comment on another post.

we are talking about people playing games and sports.
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#66 deluded pom?

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Jul 29 2010, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kurt Sorensen is Australian


Is he? Thieving Kiwis at it again.

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#67 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Jul 29 2010, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is he? Thieving Kiwis at it again.


of course he isn't d'oh!
but the point still stands, in fact it's reinforced

I was thinking of Paul Sironen blush.gif
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#68 T Dub

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Jul 29 2010, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[list]
[*]
but please don't assume that a person's name denotes where they are from.

That wasnt my point. The characters I saw lining up clearly had no heritage from the nations they were representing. I could have defined two of them by skin colour but (lest anyone get touchy and accusative) preferred to do so by name.

Shock appointment by the British Olympic Committee today as Steve Macnamara was poached from England RL; "Were going for gearld in 2012, The whole country will be inspired by Team GB, weve filled our national squad with some second string Ethiopian long distant runners, picked up a few Chinese gymnasts whove been living here for almost a year now and weve got a medal shot in archery with a bloke from Bhutan who has a grandfather from the Isle of Man. I'm doing whats best for Team GB"

Maybe we just forget representitive international competition if the competitors have no relevance to the nations theyre representing?



#69 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:16 PM

QUOTE (T Dub @ Jul 29 2010, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That wasnt my point. The characters I saw lining up clearly had no heritage from the nations they were representing. I could have defined two of them by skin colour but (lest anyone get touchy and accusative) preferred to do so by name.

Shock appointment by the British Olympic Committee today as Steve Macnamara was poached from England RL; "Were going for gearld in 2012, The whole country will be inspired by Team GB, weve filled our national squad with some second string Ethiopian long distant runners, picked up a few Chinese gymnasts whove been living here for almost a year now and weve got a medal shot in archery with a bloke from Bhutan who has a grandfather from the Isle of Man. I'm doing whats best for Team GB"

Maybe we just forget representitive international competition if the competitors have no relevance to the nations theyre representing?

you can't define anybody by skin colour. I just don't understand that at all.

how would you define tonights widnes halifax referee without knowing where he comes from?
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#70 steef

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:45 PM

QUOTE (Lee @ Jul 26 2010, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I gathered that but off all the places to go, why Slovenia?


Because it is one of the most beautifull places on earth.
"surely they've got to try somthing different now, maybe the little chip over the top?2


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#71 petero

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 09:10 PM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Jul 29 2010, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
you can't define anybody by skin colour. I just don't understand that at all.

how would you define tonights widnes halifax referee without knowing where he comes from?


Maybe not but you can define their origins by the colour of their skin, hence the reasoning behind African Americans, Coloured British, White British............ and all the rest of that nonsense.

Call me old fashioned, I am, but I cheered on people from other countries whenever I appreciated their efforts in any sport I chose to watch.
What I do not and will not condone, is this stupidity, supposedly modernist in outlook, that enables at the drop of a hat anyone to represent anywhere, whether for monetary reward ( which usually holds precedence) or any other given reason.

What Tdub has highlighted is what could easily amount to what could become the accepted norm and it is making a mockery of what once gave us pride in the nations sportspersons now going horribly wrong, all because ' others do it '? So why not R/L too...................... Utter rubbish!



#72 T Dub

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 09:43 PM

Maybe the alternative to the old fashioned, non-PC international representitive sport as we know it for the meantime is for RL to turn into commercially representitive sport as seen in Formula 1 and pro-cycling.

Scrap the Kangaroos / Kiwis etc and anyone could then play for any team. Best players to the highest payer.

That way we needn't bother with tiresome old traditions like the Haka, national anthems, pride in the shirt etc and qualification would become a non-argument.

We could look forward to a series featuring maybe Engage, Telstra, Rempart, SP and Malaysia Airlines.

It's the future.

Actually, it might be the future.

#73 adelwire

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (marklaspalmas @ Jul 26 2010, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't right care what other sports do, but that Ottey situation is not right (though she must be an incredible athelete). Once you've run for Jamaica, it's Jamaica for you.

Same in RL. Pick your country. Then it's done.


Totally agree.

#74 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 08:08 AM

QUOTE (petero @ Jul 29 2010, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe not but you can define their origins by the colour of their skin, hence the reasoning behind African Americans, Coloured British, White British............ and all the rest of that nonsense.

Call me old fashioned, I am, but I cheered on people from other countries whenever I appreciated their efforts in any sport I chose to watch.
What I do not and will not condone, is this stupidity, supposedly modernist in outlook, that enables at the drop of a hat anyone to represent anywhere, whether for monetary reward ( which usually holds precedence) or any other given reason.

What Tdub has highlighted is what could easily amount to what could become the accepted norm and it is making a mockery of what once gave us pride in the nations sportspersons now going horribly wrong, all because ' others do it '? So why not R/L too...................... Utter rubbish!


what are your origins?
I sure as hell don't know mine.

becauswe 'others do it' has nothing to do with the point, which is this and I repeat: there is a long standing mantra that only rugby league allows players to play for more than one country. This is untrue, because at least one other sport does-athletics. I'm flexible about these things and said so, but I placed no value on the fact that otheer sports do, merely pointed it out in the context of people saying that only rugby league does it.
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#75 gingerjon

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 08:27 AM

QUOTE (petero @ Jul 29 2010, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What I do not and will not condone, is this stupidity, supposedly modernist in outlook, that enables at the drop of a hat anyone to represent anywhere, whether for monetary reward ( which usually holds precedence) or any other given reason.


It's actually the more old fashioned view hence why in soccer and union all the people who've represented more than one country are historical quirks.

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#76 deluded pom?

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 08:49 AM

QUOTE (T Dub @ Jul 29 2010, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That wasnt my point. The characters I saw lining up clearly had no heritage from the nations they were representing. I could have defined two of them by skin colour but (lest anyone get touchy and accusative) preferred to do so by name.

Shock appointment by the British Olympic Committee today as Steve Macnamara was poached from England RL; "Were going for gearld in 2012, The whole country will be inspired by Team GB, weve filled our national squad with some second string Ethiopian long distant runners, picked up a few Chinese gymnasts whove been living here for almost a year now and weve got a medal shot in archery with a bloke from Bhutan who has a grandfather from the Isle of Man. I'm doing whats best for Team GB"

Maybe we just forget representitive international competition if the competitors have no relevance to the nations theyre representing?



What utter and complete bull$hit. Steve would have said "gorld" not "gearld". wink.gif

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#77 petero

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Jul 30 2010, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what are your origins?
I sure as hell don't know mine.

becauswe 'others do it' has nothing to do with the point, which is this and I repeat: there is a long standing mantra that only rugby league allows players to play for more than one country. This is untrue, because at least one other sport does-athletics. I'm flexible about these things and said so, but I placed no value on the fact that otheer sports do, merely pointed it out in the context of people saying that only rugby league does it.


I do not possess the characteristics of wide nostrils, thick lips or a skin the colour of jet!
Now I as you say I cannot be sure of my origins ( genetically and historically) but what does transpire in that descriptive is ( unless we are taking it back to Austrolapithicus..........Lucy or further?) then it is unlikely mine will be described as African British is it?

What a stupid bloody argument you are trying to make!

The entire question here is not of mine, yours or indeed anyone's lineage. It is simply one of ethical representation in sport on an internationally representative basis.
I happen, as do others, to disagree with your non-country aspect, for the simple reason that international constitutes that form of representation and becomes a joke when anyone from anywhere can turn up willy nilly and decide to represent a country of their choice, apparently on a whim.

If you cannot understand where my point of view comes from then so be it, but carrying on this silly bloody question to the extremes you have is absolutely pointless.

PS whoever stated that ONLY R/L does this, I certainly did not!!


#78 deluded pom?

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 02:41 PM

I've never seen anyone claim that "only RL do this". Plenty of people will disagree with nation hopping but that's not to say they are saying it only happens in RL. It happens in plenty of sports but in my eyes two wrongs don't make a right. As an aside was the original poster slightly merry when he typed out the title of this thread?

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#79 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 05:39 PM

QUOTE (petero @ Jul 31 2010, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do not possess the characteristics of wide nostrils, thick lips or a skin the colour of jet!
Now I as you say I cannot be sure of my origins ( genetically and historically) but what does transpire in that descriptive is ( unless we are taking it back to Austrolapithicus..........Lucy or further?) then it is unlikely mine will be described as African British is it?

What a stupid bloody argument you are trying to make!

The entire question here is not of mine, yours or indeed anyone's lineage. It is simply one of ethical representation in sport on an internationally representative basis.
I happen, as do others, to disagree with your non-country aspect, for the simple reason that international constitutes that form of representation and becomes a joke when anyone from anywhere can turn up willy nilly and decide to represent a country of their choice, apparently on a whim.

If you cannot understand where my point of view comes from then so be it, but carrying on this silly bloody question to the extremes you have is absolutely pointless.

PS whoever stated that ONLY R/L does this, I certainly did not!!

the fact that you perpetuate this 'non country' nosense shoqws how much you understand

your first sentence informs the quality of your rhetoric excellently.
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#80 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 05:40 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Jul 31 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never seen anyone claim that "only RL do this". Plenty of people will disagree with nation hopping but that's not to say they are saying it only happens in RL. It happens in plenty of sports but in my eyes two wrongs don't make a right. As an aside was the original poster slightly merry when he typed out the title of this thread?


I've seen and heard it many times.

I wasn't trying to justify anything
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