Dunbar

That's what you get when you take Mrs Ginger to games.

I assume they were a farce because players didn't/couldn't adjust their tackling style and there were loads of penalties? I can't blame the players too much, there will be an awful lot of adjustments to make if we are calling upright tackles a penalty. Maybe not as much in the community game but at all levels of the pro game players will have had tackling technique drilled into them through many hours of practice. And for forwards in particular, that is an upright tackle to secure the ball and more defenders lower to manage the player to the ground. A lot of reverse engineering of tackling techniques is required. And in the meantime, many many penalties. Maybe hypnosis is the way forward.

This is the key thing with law changes. Coaches who look to take advantage of any changes will adjust their players technique, with or without the ball. If a coach instructs their players to change head down, then how are the defenders supposed to adjust their tackling to avoid contact 'above' the arm pits? For me, the existing laws were enough to show care for the players. They just needed to be enforced consistently.

I am very happy with the admin's strict policy on cross code topics being pushed to their own forum. It would descend quickly if they were allowed on here.

I also played amateur Rugby League in the 80's and 90's. And yes, the risks of broken bones were well known but the (cumulative) head knocks not so much. I think the key phrase is nobody knew, and a sport like Rugby League which had limited resources even at the highest level was not one I would expect to put at the forefront on the thinking. They are doing good work in research now it seems. The timeline on when the governing body 'should' have known the risks and potentially didn't put into place mitigation is the key issue. I wouldn't sue the sport as I chose to play and I believe in choice and consequences of choice. Again, it is important to stress, I believe I played when the consequences were not well known. But I am fortunate in my financial circumstances and maybe that matters as well. I am in two minds on ex players bringing legal action. On the one side I don't like the damage they are potentially doing to the sport financially, but on the other maybe they are helping to make it safer. What i cannot be doing with is the few players who are bringing action while simultaneously still glorifying the foul play they were part of and/or saying that the modern game has gone soft. That is just maddeningly hypocritical.

Both players bent at the waist is a massive issue in Union, less so in League. In League, the biggest risk is upright tackles with head collisions. This is followed by low tackles with knees on heads and then heads catching elbows and hips. Heads around the midriff is the safest contact area. But that is the tackler and tackled player. The great unknown for us is moving tacklers lower meaning we have moved from the tackler and tackled player sharing the same head space and causing head clashes to having more head clashes for tacklers as multiple players are targetting the same area.

I have just posted the same concern above.

This is the critical factor for me. I know that pro and amateur are a little different but the major studies we have are really only available for the professional game. This study showed the risk of concussion for the tackler and tackled player and the type of tackle. https://sportsmedicine-open.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40798-021-00377-9 Results: “The propensity for tacklers to sustain a head injury was 0.99 HIAs per 1000 tackles, 1.74-fold greater than for the ball carrier (0.57 HIAs per 1000 tackles). There was a 3.2-fold higher risk for an HIA when the tackler was upright compared to bent-at-the-waist. The greatest risk of a tackler HIA occurred when head contact was very low (knee, boot) or high (head and elbow). HIAs were most common following head-to-head impacts. The lowest propensity for tackler HIA was found when the tackler’s head was in proximity with the ball carrier’s torso.” So, what we should see here is the reduction of HIA with upright tacklers (the shared head space resulting in head clashes). But as we move the tackle down, we introduce the other danger areas of head on head contact between tacklers as we will see more players targeting the same area. Time will tell on success.

I may have to sue Total Rugby League for negligence they have shown in this issue. They must surely have been aware of the dangers of allowing a logically incoherent thread title to be published.

Again, the video is remarkable in the examples that it has shown. Apart from some of the tackles tagged as illegal when they don't seem to hjave broken the new law, look at the example of a legal tackle at 1:34. It clearly shows the risk of two tacklers clashing heads and for me looks like the most obvious tackle in the whole video that would have resulted in a HIA.

I think most of the replies are about the examples, not the laws. The law says you cannot tackle / make initial contact above the arm pit. Freeze the video at 1 minute 11 seconds and there is a tackle where the arm of the tackler is clearly below the armpit of the ball carrier and it is descibed as illegal. Why?

All three were the upright tackles, 'chest on chest' where the space is shared between the tackler and ball carriers head and so head clash is a risk. But they don't align to the laws they are sharing. I cannot see anything illegal with the initial contact in these tackles, contact is chest high and so legal. If they want to ban upright tackles then they should have gone ahead and done that. At least it would be less ambiguous.

I tend to agree that the NRL specific topics should be in the Australian RL forum... but probably during the season as off season there is less to chat about. Graham does a great job of administration over there with the game day threads and the tipping comp so it would be a shame if things move too much over to the General forum. I find it particularly frustrating when there is a big match thread on the Aussie form (Grand Final or SOO for example) and someone starts a different thread here and the conversation is split.

If we are going to resurrect this thread, can we edit the title as it is going to make my head explode.

Values of course, values.