UTK

Unsurprisingly England were just too big, strong and talented. The difference between Hill/Burgess/Radley and Lees/Cooper/Knowles was night and day, saved us from another match of the dominant team vs the clock.

England should be too physically powerful through the middle, killed the Samoan and French packs with a real focus on dominant wrestling and 3-4 guys in a tackle. The Papuans have been playing pretty smart with their ball movement so this should take some of the sting out of that wrestle but I doubt it will be enough to obtain the territory required to score significant points and put the game into question. The 2019 fixture against GB shows how PNG have to play if they want to pull off an outlandish result, unconventional structures backed by a very physical mentality and consistent pressure around the ruck led by one Edwin Ipape. Interestingly there's a few survivors in the pack from that game - Burgess, Hill, Bateman, Whitehead all started in 2019, Thompson was on the bench but hasn't made the 19 here while the injured Walmsley also came off the bench in that match.

In an ideal world I don't think it would be the duty of British RL to improve the FFR, but unfortunately we in RL don't have an ideal world but rather one held up by two countries with the financial capability to make a difference in international RL. I would probably refrain from going as far as to say it should be considered a duty or responsibility, any interactions between the two should occur with a view to developing mutualistic benefit as opposed to some absolute altruism on behalf of England. For example, a club like Catalans that has now placed itself within the upper echelon of SL in terms of competitiveness is an asset to SL/England by driving up the standard of the premier competition. The inclusion of Catalans/TO should be seen to serve this purpose, clubs who have the prospect of strong financial backing and provide a link to another playing pool to strengthen the premier NH RL competition. Your own club Leigh IMO acts in a similar way, despite his questionable fashion sense DB makes clear his intention and capability to develop Leigh into a club that can challenge the upper echelon of SL long-term, indeed there is no doubt that the ambitious signings made this year added value and raised standards within the Championship (even though it was a walkover). Looking ahead to the longer term, the support and inclusion of the French clubs should also support the ultimate goal for France to become a consistent local rival capable of competing and beating England. I don't think many would disagree that would be of benefit to the English game if there was a competitor sitting across the channel that could regularly challenge England and pack out stadiums doing so. This is undoubtedly a very long-term prospect and a prospect that some would argue will never happen, so as you seem to be alluding to - why should this be a goal at all? I would say that boils down to whether or not we want International RL to exist in Europe. A harsh reality is that the Pacific Nations in their entirety could never tour England again or certainly never have England tour the Pacific again and they would be fine, we could survive on an International program that consisted of only the Pacific Nations playing each other or unfortunately even less than that. While I don't believe that will ultimately happen the reality is that the International calendar has already been trending toward more Pacific-centred competition, tours becoming less frequent, Australia didn't bother to play GB when they toured down here, the WC deferral, replacing the 4N with the Oceanic Cup. In light of that context England has to decide whether or not it is happy with one nation touring every year or two and that being the limit of Englands international fixtures or whether there is value in continuing to support France on its journey to becoming a nation that can fill that growing gap in the England international calendar. I must also state I'm not negligent to some of the realities of this situation, in the short-term there does need to be a focus on obtaining financial rewards from France to support the inclusion of these clubs in SL and the staging of International matches between the two nations. Building towards a more self-sustaining arrangement is the first step in making this investment much more palatable for both parties, the lack of a French tv deal should not be ignored in favour of the bright lights offered by the long-term benefits discussed here.

Absolutely, and that's why the failure to make Kangaroos matches happen between 2019 and now was so disgraceful. We were on the precipice of something gamechanging and yet the opportunity has been left to wilt despite the ultimately more difficult yet in no way prohibitive circumstances. Again I would suggest there is no coincidence that this stance was taken post-V'landys rise to chairman which funnily enough only happened 3 days before Tonga beat Australia. There was a markedly different approach between 2017 and 2019, Tongas landmark topping of the supergroup in 2017 was followed up by guaranteed games against both Australia and NZ in 2018/2019, even creating an entirely new tournament to facilitate this on an ongoing basis. Now we've thrown out their remaining consistent fixture in the mid-season test, a fixture that really began building the Tongan brand and we've yet to see what the calendar holds for them in 2023.

Those final wins don't even begin to scrape the surface on eroding decades of no competition, especially when Australia has still maintained an 80% win record vs the Kiwis since 2000. Even QLDs Origin dynasty only rendered around a 70% win record in favour of QLD during those series, I don't think those outside Australia really grasp how much damage was done to the International game here. This is why the Tongan rise is so important, finally we have a second nation capable of besting Australia and the scorecard is now even between the two nations. We're no longer pinning our hopes on the Kiwis showing up to see a competitive International game involving the Kangaroos. The lack of a follow up since 2019 has probably killed some of the momentum but nonetheless we now have a solidified Tongan brand that brings an unprecedented offering to the International game here, would be very interesting to see how an Australia v Tonga clash would received in Australia now - hopefully we'll find out in 2023.

Your first two sentences aren't in opposition to what Dunbar or anyone else has said, that harlem globetrotters effect is one of the very prominent nuanced reasons why they are underutilised. As for the last sentence, it didn't stop Origin it only didn't happen because the ARLC didn't bother/see value in doing so.

As the others have correctly pointed out it didn't stop other sports and didn't even stop our sport with Origin, there's no defence for 2018 or not at the very least running a reduced calendar during the pandemic - the Kangaroos didn't play for over 1000 days, absolutely disgraceful. I will note that I don't think it is a coincidence we've seen a different trajectory since V'landys was installed as head of the ARLC, not only was there zero effort to hold a match during/post-pandemic but we're also now gutting some of the good work that was done in establishing the mid-season tests as a consistent fixture in the calendar.

This is all absolutely true re the development work in countries within our respective regions for Australia v England, there's just no comparison between Australia's links to the rest of the Pacific vs England's to the other home nations and Europe. That being said, the ARLC is definitely responsible for the demise of the Kangaroos as a brand on account of their sheer lack of matches played each year and indeed the failure to play any games at all in 2018 and then again from 2020-this tournament. The fall of the international game and rise of Origin is as much a function of their respective competitive landscapes as it is the ARLC's lack of drive to play games though, this was a case of suffering from success in a sense combined with the inability of other nations to challenge the Kangaroos.

I would've taken Haumole over Kaufusi despite him having a very good game against the Cook Islands. I understand the experience angle but I don't think he offers a level of ability that matches any of Koloamatangi/Olakau'atu/Fifita. BMM has had a couple of decent stints this tournament but I also would've taken Tatola instead. Struggling with the fact there's no spot for Sifa Talakai as well, such a quality and versatile player - they're lacking a bit of versatility as none of their backrowers really double as centres so in the case of injury Talakai would be a really important option that can also play edge and middle.

Wil Hopoate and Siliva Havili start for their first matches of the tournament. I find the decision to slot Hopoate straight in a bit strange, the bloke has barely been fit for months and both Koula and Niu have done fairly well so far. Not overly convinced by some of the forwards selections either to be honest but think they'll still have too much for Samoa.

Getting the excuses in early for any future England losses. "It's all part of a conspiracy for English referees to get invited to the post-WC BBQ with the Australian squad, they wouldn't dare give a penalty against the Aussies!"

This ban on British players coming to Australia in the 1970s didn't actually happen though did it? Dozens of GB internationals had stints with Australian clubs during the 70s. Australia banning British players or England banning Australians/French/Kiwis would do nothing but artificially cap the talent in the competition, therefore reducing the standard of which players coming through would be exposed to and hamstringing the development of players playing in that competition.

I don't think it's fair to say French RL is embarassing/shocking, I think people forget how little relative participation there is in France compared to the other major nations. France has around 7000 RL participants, England has 75000. France had 2 pro clubs last year, England had 12 I believe (drops to 11 with Thunder going back to part-time). 2 weeks ago these teams met and the result was 42-18 in favour of the side with 10x more participants and 6x more pro clubs, which nation is embarrassing again?

John Bateman to West Tigers being reported as a done deal in Australia - 250k AUD transfer fee suggested.

The French National side would be infinitely worse without Catalans inclusion in SL, other national sides have improved at a greater rate and this distorts that fact.

While a Confederations Cup would theoretically be a good expansion to include England/France/Cook Islands/Lebanon it makes it a lot more expensive to hold which becomes a problem. England/GB aren't a draw in Aus/NZ/England anymore, as we saw in 2017 and 2019 Tonga and Samoa are bigger drawcards in Aus/NZ while PNG obviously packs out Port Moresby and can now be considered a relatively safe financial proposition given the implications of the political situation surrounding Aus/NZ and consequential government support. Fiji is really the only one that struggles to draw crowds anywhere in the region but that's fine when they're only 1 team out of 6 involved but when that stretches to 3/8 financial things become a bit more difficult. Ultimately that wouldn't entice the NRL if they were footing the bill while it may become prohibitive for the IRL if they were to fully control the competition. A WC win could potentially change the attractiveness of England for crowds in the region but Baskerville Shield wins haven't translated to good crowds for England when playing in NZ so I would say this is no guarantee.

Yeah this is true, ultimately the scope of professional production is much more limited vs other nations. In saying that the NRL absolutely do need to be continuing work into comprehensive systems like they have with PNG and Fiji, relatively speaking Tonga has been fairly successful in producing genuine born and bred first-graders (often via RU to NZ Schools Scholarships) in recent times - we've had Konrad Hurrell, Solomone Kata, Eliesa Katoa and Viliami Vailea. If we can start getting more kids playing RL and convert that pipeline from Tongan RU/RL juniors to NRL club juniors then we could get a consistent enough stream despite that population.

Tonga & Samoa do have domestic competitions despite their heritage-dominance at test level. Tonga has 20+ clubs across 2 divisions at open age level as well as a secondary schools competition and multiple junior age groups. Tonga's population is around 115k Samoa has 10 mens open age clubs, a womens competition (3-4 teams) and an u18s colleges competition. Samoa's population is around 200k. Both these nations fall within the <500k population bracket as per IRL membership classifications but nonetheless exceed even the requirements of full membership for IRL countries with >500k population. When we consider the populations involved there is really no reason to put Tonga/Samoa in the same bracket as the likes of Italy and Scotland despite the similar levels of heritage players.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-olympics-2032-two-disciplines-1945494 Couple of threads in this article but further down Grant begins to cover the plans for 2029 onwards - Southern Hemisphere understandably the front-runner. Says America is still an option for 2033 and that Hawaii could form part of a Pacific Cup in 2029, potentially alongside hosting games in Tonga, Samoa, Vanuatu but nothing concrete. States there's now a committee established to look at the WC 3 cycles ahead and they're hoping to release the new international calendar in December.

Yeah Greece to USA would be short money as the only change. Good question about the CI, based on the article below I believe the Phillipines are the only other full member in the Asia-Pacific - Vanuatu and the Solomons are only observers I think. The article seems to indicate the Phillipines have applied to enter a wheelchair team in 2025 and are working towards entering 2029 qualifiers so I'd take that to suggest the CIs will go straight into repechage for 2025. https://www.rugbyleagueplanet.com/2022/06/13/philippine-olympic-committee-approves-rugby-league-recognition/

As I understand it, the distinction is between fully professional contracts and getting players to play as a semi-pro hence why there is absolutely no problem for Football because those players are each earning more than the entirety of SL. Hence why the top French players such as Sangare have no problem coming across to play in SL for an English Club as he's fully pro and would be above the contract size relevant here. On your second sentence that is absolutely not at all what the Skolars are suggesting, but rather someone like Theodore Nianiakas could be given a chance to come across and earn a spot on their bench like Bastos did with Hemel/Doncaster and Celerino did with WWR. This is not an easy option at all, it is giving someone in a developing nation a chance to experience a high-quality RL environment in a major nation such as England for the good of the wider international game. Greeks developing their own domestic game to a level that would get a fully domestic side within 100 points of any other nation at the WC is just absolute fantasy, this does not happen in any sport around the World let alone one lacking wealth as RL does.

In accordance with the Skolars post I have no wish to delve into the politics of Brexit but rather address the reality as pertaining to RL. This is a really good point when we discuss the blowouts and how to fix them, amateur domestic players will never bring the minnow nations closer to the big boys. The PNG Hunters and Kaiviti Siktails are the perfect examples of how to progress a nations domestic player production at the professional/semi-professional level however the money and structures within the English system really prevent this from being replicated. So short of a full domestic team such as those sides above the best way to bring your minnows up to standard is creating pathways for them to join existing clubs in the lower tiers of the English/Australian structures. I don't have a great understanding of the implications of Brexit but based on what I've seen discussed it appears the Skolars post quite rightly points out that this method of bringing domestic players from mainland Europe or America/Jamaica to the lower tiers is now not really an option. We've seen a couple of players in this WC play for League One sides in the past - Giole Celerino (Italy), Stefanos Bastos (Greece) and other domestic products such as Ryan Burroughs (USA) and Quinn Ngawati (Canada) have done the same. I'm more than happy to be educated on the specifics of this by someone who has a better understanding of the situation that I, but if this situation is no longer an option or is significantly more difficult how do we then progress the likes of Jamaica, Greece, Serbia, et al. The gaps between these domestic competitions and SL is far too big for the best domestic players to be considered for pro contracts so League One really is the level at which players could improve their game. If these lower tiers are now cut off from promising players how are the minnows going to start closing the gap between now and France 2025, genuinely at a loss as to what our options are.

https://www.intrl.sport/news/road-to-france-rlwc2025-qualifying-process-announced/ Structures that are already decided are contained in there, so we've got (auto-qualified in bold): Europe (6-8): England, France - Somewhat undefined in the above release but qualifying will occur through the European championships and repechage, with 6 guaranteed we'll likely see Wales and Ireland take two places with Scotland and Italy short favourites to take the remaining two - provides a conundrum to the IRL on enforcing minimum standards as it looks like Greece will miss out to these two nations despite the work being done there. Americas (2): 2 finalists of 2023 Americas Champs - Jamaica, USA, Canada, Brazil or Chile (whoever placed highest in South American Champs goes to Americas Cup) Asia-Pacific (5-7): Australia, NZ, Tonga, Samoa, PNG, Fiji - Cook Islands will compete in the repechage for the final spot, very likely to win said repechage yet again. MEA (1-2): Lebanon - Highest placed outside of Lebanon in 2023 MEA Cup will enter repechage for the potential second spot - Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana and Lebanon. Initial thoughts: We may have made a mistake giving 2 guaranteed places to the Americas this time around due to the problems in the USA, perhaps MEA may have been a better choice given some of the positive work done in Nigeria and the heritage players that could buffer them in a WC or the fact that South Africa has a more consistent domestic comp with junior competitions present. The Scotland/Italy problem is a real one, they may at this stage be more competitive than the Greeks but this is on the strength of heritage alone. It would be a real shame to see the Greeks miss 2025 in favour of nations with dubious eligibility according to the prescribed IRL minimum standards, especially now that Greece can put covid and legality status behind them to move forward.

As we already knew the Samoans were underdone and the organisations approach to the tournament was very lackadaisical on the back of their superstar commits. Obviously this has started to correct itself as the squad has spent time together while some improved team selections and returns from injury have the squad looking more appropriately balanced than it did initially. Very good for the tournament as we are in desperate need of some competitive games throughout the finals. France has a major physicality and athleticism problem, we often lament when small and skillful players are overlooked in the youth ranks for their well-developed peers but this game is a very good example as to why there is such value in powerful athletes in RL. Springer, Dezaria and Sangare are the few who could be considered athletic here, Garcia, Goudemand and Pelisser are less explosive but hold their own through a combination of strength, stamina and agility while lacking size. The rest of the pack has no such athleticism - Seguier, Jullien, Puech, Le Cam and Da Costa just can't compete with Samoa or England in this aspect. The outside backs are also poor in this sense. Romano is passable and works extremely hard out of his own end but struggles with a lot of the fundamentals, Yaha is big enough but is very slow and not that strong for his size, Langi is good enough here but getting older and will relinquish his eligibility if not playing in France, Laguerre isn't fast or strong but runs a good line and can compete in the air, Marcon gets monstered if anyone catches him. Outside the WC squad you have Jussaume who looked to have some damaging pace and footwork but again struggles with some of the fundamentals, Marguerite has shown in the past he can be an explosive outside back to physically compete but has never been consistent or suggested to have the right mentality to make the most of it, Miloudi could damage any team on his day but he's a little bit insane and defensively suspect. The spine is the one potential bright spot, Mourgue has all the talent in the world and has proven his ability to impact big games against quality teams time and time again. Da Costa really shouldn't be in the side, everything looks much better with Pelissier on and Lacans should feel unlucky to have missed the squad. Gigot is the definition of rocks and diamonds but he actually hasn't had too bad of a tournament after Greece, has lost the athleticism that would allow him to play centre effectively though. Rouge is just too inexperienced at the moment but has a lot going for him as a future halfback. This side really is crying out for the consistency of Theo Fages, I do hope we haven't seen the last of him in a France jersey.

Yeah the centres conundrum is a strange one, I don't like either Niukore or Nikora as a centres option but one should certainly be on the bench as a handy cover for outside backs injuries. Feels like they've got too many good forwards so Madge is trying to fit them all in by playing them in the backs because he can't make the tough call to let go of the Bromwich Bros (mostly Jesse). One thing that has become very clear is that NZ can't win it without Jahrome Hughes, definitely their most important player.