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Everything posted by bowes

  1. Possibly some of the London clubs that have a lot of Australian backpackers could compete on the field with NCL clubs but they'd never meet off field criteria. Beyond them I can't see anyone getting close.
  2. Hopefully one day they'll be able to create a southern version of the NCL, but I don't think we're there yet. League 1 South seems a step too far.
  3. Bristol Sonics and South Wales Scorpions have both folded. Nottingham would probably be reluctant to switch to a league that's probably not too different in standard from their current league but with more travelling. I don't know how Hemel or Gloucestershire All Golds would feel about joining, and it may be possible to get extra Welsh or London teams to join but it doesn't really look like a League 1 South. Maybe NCL South but even not all clubs would meet off field criteria and it would be a demotion for the semi-pro clubs.
  4. The Southern Conference is two regional leagues neither of which covers the midlands, so no it wouldn't be a suitable level to play at. It's also a much lower playing standard.
  5. They played a season of friendlies the year before joining the league
  6. Dewsbury Celtic seem to have a long history given they’re listed in the Heavy Woollen District League above
  7. South Shields played in the Northern Rugby League division 2 and Wallsend played in the Cumberland League. Werneth had played in the Lancashire second competition but by this point were playing in the reserve league.
  8. They had a league structure in rugby union at the time before rugby league was formed but only in the north. Yorkshire had a 12 team league (the 11 Northern Union founders plus Dewsbury) and did have lower leagues. The bottom two teams in the top league had to apply for re-election and when Morley and Castleford (top two in the Second Competition) had their bid for promotion knocked back they appealed to the RFU. I think the RFU said they'd shut the league down unless they allowed Morley and Castleford in. Lancashire had smaller leagues but some kind of promotion and relegation (based on playoffs like northern union adopted I believe). However, these leagues collapsed quite rapidly after the northern union was founded. I think Lancashire saw more wastage of teams in part because clubs were based in areas too small to support professionalism.
  9. Basically the lower division Yorkshire based clubs were slower to switch to Northern Union than the Lancashire based ones. This is in large part due to the split from rugby union being for different reasons either side of the Pennines. West of the Pennines the split was primarily due to professionalism and there were close ties between elite clubs and those in lower divisions. In Yorkshire a major factor was the top division clubs wanting a closed shop league, whilst the RFU wanted to introduce promotion and relegation. In short there may have been local competitions but there was no second competition that season.
  10. Unlike the Lancashire line ups these aren't final positions. Also I can't vouch for the accuracy of these to the same extent as the Lancashire ones as they're taken from many different sources (in particular the 1899-1900 season) 1898-99 Yorkshire Second Competition (East) Featherstone Goole Hull Kingston Rovers Kinsley Normanton Outwood Parish Church Ripon Rothwell York Yorkshire Second Competition (West) Birstall Bowling Dewsbury Eastmoor Elland Idle Luddendenfoot Morley Todmorden Hull Kingston Rovers were overall champions and defeated Heckmondwike to take their place in the senior competition 1899-1900 Yorkshire Second Competition (East) Alverthorpe Eastmoor Featherstone Goole Kinsley Normanton Ossett Outwood Parish Church Pontefract Rothwell York Yorkshire Second Competition (West) Birstall Dewsbury Elland Hebden Bridge Heckmondwike Idle Kirkstall Luddendenfoot Shipley Sowerby Bridge Todmorden Windhill Normanton were overall champions but lost to Liversedge in the promotion/relegation match 1900-01 Yorkshire Second Competition (East) Alverthorpe Eastmoor Featherstone Goole Kinsley Kirkstall Normanton Ossett Outwood Parish Church Pontefract York York Melbourne Yorkshire Second Competition (West) Bingley Dewsbury (started the season in the East division) Hebden Bridge Heckmondwike Idle Keighley Otley Sowerby Bridge Shipley Todmorden Windhill Birstall (withdrew midseason) Luddendenfoot (withdrew midseason) Elland (failed to start the season) Teams in bold elected to the Yorkshire Senior Competition. I don't know the fate of all these clubs but a single division was formed which ended up named the Yorkshire Senior Competition that lasted for a while as a non-league semi-professional competition
  11. As promised: 1897-98 Lancashire Second Competition Barrow Millom Ulverston Radcliffe Lancaster Barton Birkenhead Wanderers Walkden Altrincham (called up from 3rd competition to replace Dukinfield) Fleetwood Crompton (withdrew midseason) St Helens Recs (withdrew mid-season; this St Helens Recs is not the same club as the later one) Lancashire Third Competition Werneth Leigh Shamrocks Whitworth Rochdale Rangers Warrington St Mary's Mossley (withdrew mid-season) Boothstown (withdrew mid-season) Blackley Rangers (failed to start the season) Cheetham Hill (failed to start the season) Morecambe defeated Barrow to retained their Senior Competition status 1898-99 Lancashire Second Competition Millom Barrow Lancaster Ulverston Altrincham Radcliffe Birkenhead Wanderers Fleetwood Blackpool Barton (withdrew mid-season) Walkden (withdrew mid-season) Millom defeated Morecambe to take their place in the senior competition 1899-1900 Lancashire Second Competition Barrow Werneth Morecambe Birkenhead Wanderers Whitworth Altrincham Lancaster Fleetwood Radcliffe Ulverston Dalton Barrow defeated Tyldesley to take their place in the senior competition 1900-01 Lancashire Second Competition Morecambe Birkenhead Wanderers Lancaster Altrincham Radcliffe Werneth Whitworth Tyldesley Leigh Shamrocks Fleetwood (withdrew mid-season) Teams in bold were elected to the Lancashire Senior Competition. Werneth joined the Lancashire Combination (reserve league). Leigh Shamrocks joined the Central Lancashire League. Whitworth and Tyldesley folded
  12. Leigh missed an extra season after WW2 because they lost their ground and nearly folded. Both Bradford and Hunslet have folded midseason and then rebounded
  13. It will have to wait til the New Years Eve or New Years Day but I can let you know this in full when I get home. I've got information for Yorkshire when I get home but one of the seasons is a little sketchy.Lancashire had a second competition (and one off third competition) with a playoff for promotion to the senior competition. Yorkshire had two second competitions (west and east) with the winners playing off for the right to challenge the bottom team in the senior competition. After the second competitions were abolished there was a semi-pro Yorkshire Senior Competition from which teams could apply for promotion (ie Pontefract, Castleford and Featherstone Rovers). Lancashire semi-pro clubs outside the senior leagues played against reserve teams (Wigan Highfield started there). I have no information on these leagues
  14. West London Sharks (just called West London for the first season) were a joint side in the summer of Brent-Ealing and London Colonials. But London Colonials kept a winter side for a couple more seasons
  15. Merit is just a way for new clubs to get into the game or for clubs to run 2nd or 3rd teams they couldn't otherwise. In Yorkshire it seems to be more a way of giving extra games to winter clubs. It isn't an option as a primary competition for the more established areas of the game. All those things have happened in the winter game to the same extent. But the simple thing is the NW clubs were given a free choice of season and overwhelmingly backed summer. Winter has been pushed very hard as an option to return to pretty much every year and hasn't got much support. In fact the likes of West Bank Swans and Albert Park who chose it originally have ceased to exist and most of the others have opted for summer. A switch back now clearly cannot happen. To put it simply players given a free choice between summer and winter opt for summer even if they miss a few games towards the end of the season. Thus any winter competition set as an alternative is doomed to failure. The summer league seems to struggle in August and September (the latter a part of the winter season), but the winter season seems to struggle every month Yorkshire is more complicated but I can see a sizeable switch to summer after this season.
  16. Long story short a 10 game summer season was never and could never overtake a full winter season as the main form of the game as it just plain isn't enough rugby league. A full summer season has found much more support. In fact outside of Yorkshire at open age and everywhere at juniors it is the preference.
  17. True but when it became the main season rather than filler season. From memory the cuts were announced ages before they came into place. Think I first heard in 2011 but it got cut after 2012.
  18. What incentive would the RFL have to find development officers for clubs in winter but not in their preferred summer season? I might buy conspiracies if they cut funding for winter but not for summer. The cut is entirely down to Sport England.
  19. It really is a coincidence. If anything the plans to cut development officers, but not implementation of it, preceded the move to summer. But it's total lunacy to suggest the RFL wanted to fund the amateur game in the winter but not in the summer. If anything it would be the other way round.
  20. Nothing to do with playing season they just unfortunately coincided. It is to do with the Sport England cuts that are based on decreased participation over the last few years of winter, which meant the RFL could no longer afford them. The game outside the heartlands' decline is exclusively down to the removal of development officers (as there's no season switch to factor in). Summer hasn't expanded the game but the vast majority of clubs switching back to winter have been wiped out by it, so a return to winter would be the final nail in the coffin rather than a solution. The game needs to consolidate its resources into one governing body and one playing season and consolidate struggling clubs into fewer, much stronger clubs
  21. I don't see how you can blame the summer game for the demise of the clubs that stayed winter. I still think withdrawing development officers has a lot to answer for
  22. I know that some of the games listed PP are from a club not raising a team and some also didn't last week. But yeah the disputes are a part of the problem. Needless to say neither summer nor winter is a solution to games being called off but everyone playing one season under one governing body would be beneficial
  23. Looks like barbecues, stag dos and festivals are spread to November: Premier Division Fryston Warriors 30 0 Thornhill Trojans Sharlston Rovers 50 10 Queensbury Upton 30 0 Illingworth West Bowling 28 22 Queens Championship One Division Allerton Bywater 14 22 Brotherton Bulldogs Bentley Good Companions P P Morley Borough Dewsbury Moor 38 4 Batley Boys Doncaster Toll Bar 84 4 Kings Cross Park New Earswick All Blacks 30 0 Newsome Panthers Division One Methley Royals 28 10 Cutsyke Raiders Stainland Stags 26 12 Boothtown Terriers Victoria Rangers 38 36 Sharlston Rovers A West Leeds 40 14 Dalton Division Two Greetland All Rounders 12 32 Hunslet Club Parkside Kellingley Welfare 4 26 Underbank Rangers Shaw Cross Sharks 26 18 West Craven Warriors Wibsey Warriors 46 6 Littleborough Wyke P P CK Vikings Division Three Clayton P P Crigglestone All Blacks Queensbury A 20 16 Whinmoor Warriors Woodhouse Warriors 36 28 Stanningley Division Four Dewsbury Celtic 42 12 West Bowling A Eastmoor Dragons 52 0 Wortley Dragons Emley Moor 22 28 Crofton Cougars Sherburn Bears 30 0 Wakefield City Division Five East Leeds 20 34 Ovenden Slaithwaite Saracens 30 0 Moorends Thorne Marauders Division Six East Beeston Broncos 12 40 Drighlington A Harehills Pigeons P P Halton Moor Storm Leeds Underdogs 38 0 Doncaster Toll Bar A Ryhill Hammers 0 28 Dewsbury Moor A Division Six West Illingworth A P P Victoria Rangers A King Cross Park A 0 30 Cowling Harlequins Meltham All Blacks 30 0 Clayton A Queensbury B 0 72 Victoria Rangers A Worth Village 46 1 Wyke A 12 out of 36 games called off, a third, and this just 2 months into the season. Now this is a very sad state of affairs but it also thoroughly debunks the calls for a return to winter. In the North West it's worse with only one fixture going ahead this weekend and Clock Face Miners going from mid table premier division to not being able to raise a team.
  24. Anyone know who was the first team from the traditional Yorkshire League areas to join the Pennine league and what year? The earliest I can find is 2002-03 which had just 6 such sides in: Wetherby Bulldogs Westgate Redoubt Crigglestone All Blacks York Groves Morley Borough Drighlington A
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