Pennine Origin

[redjonn]

14 minutes ago, JonM said:

Or realistically, a half-hearted game played midweek before 5000 at Leigh or Headingley. Half the Lancashire/ West of Pennine + random draftees team will have pulled out with groin strains/ unspecified other injury that magically heals before the next SL game in the week beforehand, as no-one really cares about the outcome. Just like it has been for the last previous ~125 years. It wasn't even a popular concept in the 1900s, why would it suddenly attract an audience now?

It was only 2016 when we had 21k for an England v Scotland four nations game at Coventry. That's a measure of just how dismal the RFL has been in the last few years.

Don't particular disagree and I would prefer internationals. The question as I asked earlier in the thread applies for me...

That is the inter-state competition in Aussie land was as per the UK Roses/inter county games here.

We gave up, the Aussies took another approach from which we have the massive Origin series built from the dust of the inter state. So as per your comment it wasn't popular back before but somehow they have built the Origin concept, which seems more important than the international game nowadays.

I have no real knowledge of the game in Australia and hence my comment may just be simplistic rubbish.

[Rupert Prince]

1 minute ago, JonM said:

Or realistically, a half-hearted game played midweek before 5000 at Leigh or Headingley. Half the Lancashire/ West of Pennine + random draftees team will have pulled out with groin strains/ unspecified other injury that magically heals before the next SL game in the week beforehand, as no-one really cares about the outcome. Just like it has been for the last previous ~125 years. It wasn't even a popular concept in the 1900s, why would it suddenly attract an audience now?

It was only 2016 when we had 21k for an England v Scotland four nations game at Coventry. That's a measure of just how dismal the RFL has been in the last few years.

The last world cup was in southern hemisphere, so no chance for a further hyped up game.  I'm curious though.  After that England v Scotland game, how many "Scots" went back to Australia.

And your attitude is not very good or helpful, given that you want to sneer at the prospect of an Origin game.  The harsh reality is we do not have remotely competitive teams in Scotland and Wales.

Not that Scotland RU are much better.  They have 4 south african born players in their 40 man squad.  I think at least 2 played this weekend.  Indeed all the 6 Nations 'benefit' from South Africans, and thats just a start.

My point is there is no reason why we cannot produce 2 Origin squads, good ones, based on 'Pennine' rules.  Every one does it... even the original Origin. 

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

My point is there is no reason why we cannot produce 2 Origin squads, good ones, based on 'Pennine' rules.  Every one does it... even the original Origin. 

Sure, we could pick two decent squads. But you can't force people to care very much about who the winner is -  history suggests most of the players don't care and not many spectators do either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_League_War_of_the_Roses

England vs Rob Burrow's all-star foreigners XIII would get more of a crowd and probably more feeling on the pitch and would at least give Mr. Wane a chance to try a few combinations out. 

[Rupert Prince]

3 minutes ago, JonM said:

Sure, we could pick two decent squads. But you can't force people to care very much about who the winner is -  history suggests most of the players don't care and not many spectators do either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_League_War_of_the_Roses

England vs Rob Burrow's all-star foreigners XIII would get more of a crowd and probably more feeling on the pitch and would at least give Mr. Wane a chance to try a few combinations out. 

What Wane and England need is to see the best available and see how they face up ... not least if places were ar stake?

But leaving that aside, a charity game would be fake.  Good for charity but no help to the game. I despair at people like you who have no ambition for the game.  Rest assured, left to people like you the game will be a shell of its former self.  A husk.

[JonM]

2 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I despair at people like you who have no ambition for the game.  Rest assured, left to people like you the game will be a shell of its former self.  A husk.

The ambition to revive a tournament that over its 100 year history attracted crowds lower than almost any SL game, and which makes us look ridiculously old-fashioned and parochial to most people in the UK? 

Just play some England games - like football, cricket, rugby union does, like just about every other team sport does. The fact that we can have years (like 2017 and 2019) without a single international in England is the problem, not the lack of made-up trial matches. What other sport in Britain doesn't even bother to arrange international games? 

[Rupert Prince]

30 minutes ago, JonM said:

The ambition to revive a tournament that over its 100 year history attracted crowds lower than almost any SL game, and which makes us look ridiculously old-fashioned and parochial to most people in the UK? 

Just play some England games - like football, cricket, rugby union does, like just about every other team sport does. The fact that we can have years (like 2017 and 2019) without a single international in England is the problem, not the lack of made-up trial matches. What other sport in Britain doesn't even bother to arrange international games? 

Wake up.  We should be having 3 games against Australia. We went to NZ last year and NZ came here befor that .  We went to PNG we 'went' to Tonga.  But that's the point, we cannot make money going to places like Tonga and the island teams are impoverished.

No e of this has got anything to do with playing internationals.  Its about creating a pathway to our international standard players and producing a competitive edge to our own domestic game.

I find it remarkable, bizarre (OK, frankly pathetic), that our own English fans hype up the Aussie Origin series more than the Aussies themselves and at the same time fall over themselves to bring down our own ambitions.

[Hela Wigmen]

3 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Wake up.  We should be having 3 games against Australia. We went to NZ last year and NZ came here befor that .  We went to PNG we 'went' to Tonga.  But that's the point, we cannot make money going to places like Tonga and the island teams are impoverished.

No e of this has got anything to do with playing internationals.  Its about creating a pathway to our international standard players and producing a competitive edge to our own domestic game.

I find it remarkable, bizarre (OK, frankly pathetic), that our own English fans hype up the Aussie Origin series more than the Aussies themselves and at the same time fall over themselves to bring down our own ambitions.

What ambitions? The Australians have capable opponents, a willing audience and broadcasters wanting to showcase their games. We have got France, a side that haven’t scored double figures against us since October 2011 (and they’re comfortably the second best NH nation), fans who don’t really care much for England games in non-World Cup or tournament events, a half decent audience when on TV but preferably for your World Cup and tournament games and two broadcasters interested in showing our game but they’d like it for much less than they’re paying. 

 

[Rupert Prince]

47 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

What ambitions? The Australians have capable opponents, a willing audience and broadcasters wanting to showcase their games. We have got France, a side that haven’t scored double figures against us since October 2011 (and they’re comfortably the second best NH nation), fans who don’t really care much for England games in non-World Cup or tournament events, a half decent audience when on TV but preferably for your World Cup and tournament games and two broadcasters interested in showing our game but they’d like it for much less than they’re paying. 

You have a new definition of 'ambition' I've not seen before. I translate it to read 'surrender'.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Rupert Prince said:

You have a new definition of 'ambition' I've not seen before. I translate it to read 'surrender'.

I’m asking what ambition? I genuinely can’t see any and any reason to be optimistic about the International game in the U.K. and Ireland. 

[Rupert Prince]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’m asking what ambition? I genuinely can’t see any and any reason to be optimistic about the International game in the U.K. and Ireland. 

The ambition for a start is what this thread started out about... creating time in the season to put on a Pennine Origin.

Ambition is about doing something instead of hiding under a stone. 

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Rupert Prince said:

The ambition for a start is what this thread started out about... creating time in the season to put on a Pennine Origin.

Ambition is about doing something instead of hiding under a stone. 

There’s no ambition in doing what we’ve done before and expecting different results. It’s what Einstein deemed as “insanity”. And playing Yorkshire vs Lancashire, which is effectively what this idea is with an added unnecessary draft as the shiny new feature, is doing the same thing again and expecting different results.