Maximus Decimus

I've always enjoyed a bit of boxing (watching not taking part!) and there seems to be some very interesting stuff coming up. I recently posted on the other forum about boxing on YouTube and there really is some excellent stuff out there. There is something about boxing that lends itself to great content and I would heartily recommend Boxing Legends TV as a start to pass a few days of your time. The most pressing event is Joshua vs Parker which looks like being a decent fight. If Joshua gets past this then there is the real prospect of a mega fight in Joshua-Wilder. This is all happening whilst the return of Tyson Fury is imminent. Domestically there is a fair bit to be excited about, none more so than Bellew-Haye 2.

Absolute claims of never watching the sport again usually tend to be premature. God knows enough Widnes fans made those claims during the initial SL rejections and licensing years only to come back when we made it.

It's probably worth pointing out to those not in the know, that one of the biggest boxing matches in the world will be between two amateur boxers. KSI vs Logan Paul will be huge but amongst largely non-boxing fans. KSI's previous fight against Joe Weller was viewed 23 million times on Youtube and had 1.6 million viewers live. Logan Paul has way more subscribers than Weller (17m to 5m), is more well known as a result of his recent idiocy and as a result the fight is being held at the MEN. I'd never heard of KSI until I saw a Mayweather video where he was at their gym, it's like a whole different world that has passed me by!

As I said earlier, it's trying to find the balance between what is simply nostalgia and what are changes in the sport. I'm lucky in that I can refer to my attitude to football and understand that much is clearly to do with me. For instance I used to get really up for England Football games especially in tournaments and even that has lessened considerably over the years. That's not to say that it's pure nostalgia. I think there was pretty much unanimous agreement that the product was excellent 15 years ago but that it was the people in charge. Now you find far fewer defenders of the product.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm talking about variety with regards to the actual competitions. For instance what really differentiates the old Regal Trophy from the Challenge Cup apart from a name? Would people really be interested in a county cup with fewer of the same teams? They did in the past but the culture has clearly changed. Now they would just be dominated by the same SL teams. For a new tournament to be successful it would have to fill a different purpose and be made up of different clubs ie from a different league such as with the WCC. Either that or be something completely different like a nines tournament of which I'm not a fan. We can't compare ourselves to football and shouldn't try. It is so strongly embedded in our culture that it doesn't need to try like other sports do. That said it has variety and aspiration of the European competitions.

I think the key to the success of any new competition is variety. One that just involves the same teams is always likely to fail. We play each other enough, playing again but under a different competition badge is going to feel just as dry. The only real scope we have is an extended WCC but this is hampered by the Australians, both in their willingness and in the gulf in class. If we can get to the point where the season feels like it matters again, that would go a long way to alleviating the complacency that has set in.

Whilst you might have a point I don't think you could bring those cups back. Times have changed in all sports and it would just mean more games between the big clubs. The playoffs had dwindled to a nothing competition by 1997. The last year they were held had a combined attendance of less than the GF does now. The top 8 was a disaster IMO and Leeds winning from 5th made a mockery of the regular season. It wasn't because they did it, as in Australia it would be greeted as a unique event and something the celebrate. Over here everybody knew that Leeds had just peaked when they needed to and 5th was not a real representation of their strength. It totally undid the playoff structure that we had previously. Another big change spectacle wise was the wrestle in the tackle. Things slowed down over night and there was an instant dislike to it amongst fans. I don't think it can be undone necessarily but it wasn't good for the spectacle.

As Bob8 kindly referenced, I made a long blog post about 6 years ago replying to a similar but much more lengthy post from a previous diehard fan. I think there is a mixture of nostalgia and reality going on but that both are true. Growing older changes things but I think it's hard to argue that the product isn't as good as it used to be. When I was younger I was sports mad but my main sports were RL and Football. I follow RL far less than I once did but I follow it much more than I follow Football. There are only now a handful of sports that I ever watch. Therefore there is clearly something going on to do with changes in my life and priorities rather than the sports themselves. Back when times weren't so good for instance the late 90s, even though we were at a low ebb the one thing virtually everyone agreed on was that we had the product, it was a just a case of getting it out to the masses. I think it's telling how this has changed and how few people there are who convincingly crow about RL being the greatest game anymore. I don't blame anyone, I just think the game has evolved in a way that hasn't helped the product. It is too structured and defenses are too good that it has reduced the amount of attractive play. This mixed in with seemingly high error rates and a style of refereeing that is oblivious to the spectacle isn't helping. All of course isn't doom and gloom, there are still plenty of good games which is more in line with the number from most sports. Also, I think there are some signs from the NRL that the game is evolving over there at least. Brisbane-Melbourne was an absolute joy with a great deal of variety.

It's hard to argue with McDermott IMO. For different reasons I watched very little RL last season and when I watched a full game again I was struck by how frustrating a game it has become at times and mostly because of the referee. This is not to say the referees are incompetent but their influence on the game has become too great. As others have said, the reward for a penalty is too great especially when so many of them are basically 50/50 calls. I don't know the answer but I think most of us would prefer a game that was more free flowing like we often see in big games. Putting our fingers in our ears and blaming the players and the coaches isn't going to change anything.

Great showing but I'm sure even he would've preferred a bit longer.

It's the return of Amir Khan tonight and I think that'll take preference over the Frampton - Donaire fight on BT for me. The presumption is that he'll win pretty easy but there's always an element of you never know when a previously big fighter returns. Ricky Hatton comes to mind. Sadly early signs are that AJ and Wilder talks are going to be difficult. That's the real pain of boxing, the whole economic model prevents many fights from happening when they should.

I'd love to see him on. The only question is who he would go as.

Seeing as though they only get a small number at home that's not half bad.

This is gonna be monetising YouTube videos all over again. This comment was sponsored by RLfans.com for that extra level of crazy.

We'll do well to break 1000.

In theory I always thought that an increase in competitiveness would be good for SL. Even thought we're about as average a squad as you could imagine, there are few home games that are lost before they begin. This didn't used to be the case. It's also not only us, I think there are bigger problems in the game. I remember we played Wire in a friendly prior to our first year in SL and being amazed by the wall of sound coming from their fans. Even when clubs bring a lot now there isn't the same enthusiasm in my opinion. The ST culture is what fueled growth in SL crowds but I think it is now part of the problem as fans that don't invest in the ST get out of the habit of going.

We had a pretty decent cup run a few years back and it only papers over the cracks. To be fair, Leigh are the best argument against us being finished. There's been a few times over the last 20 years I've thought that Leigh were finished as a top flight side. Last year, despite relegation, you did better attendance wise than nearly any year we've had in SL and we always got bigger crowds than you guys when we were both in the Championship.

The too good to go down tag has been completely lost over the last few years. To give a case in point, our Easter Monday crowd against Saints (our likely 2nd biggest crowd of the year) was our average crowd in 2005.

We've always got an injury crisis, having a god awful squad doesn't help. The club does great stuff in the community but it seems to have little impact. They release a raft of videos on YouTube most with views in the low hundreds. A couple of seasons ago I was in corporate and James Rule was giving a pre-game speech. In it he talked about a big promotion that we'd done and in his opinion it had had a minimal impact on the crowd. No doubt this has affected the clubs approach since then. The academy sounds great but I'm skeptical as to how many will actually progress to senior first team players. The likelihood is that even if they do, they'll probably be poached.

Sadly Scubby I suspect you've been quite generous in your analysis, I've stated in previous threads that I fear more for Widnes now than at any time in my life except for maybe briefly in 2008. I'll try and keep this as brief as possible. There are external factors as well as internal ones affecting us at the moment. I think Widnes are being affected in a similar way to other lower clubs such as Salford and Huddersfield. There is a definite stagnant feel to the game at the moment across the board. However, I'll focus mainly on the internal factors. RL in Widnes has lived off the glory days of the late 80s/early 90s for most of my life. Even when crowds fell and we were relegated, there was a latent support in the town that was pretty easily tapped into when needed. As soon as we started to look like we could get promoted, these fans came out of the woodwork and the quest for our rightful place in SL was something that united and motivated the fans. Our first stint in SL had its successes and there are many fond memories of that first season. We grew with SL and the year we were relegated (with games to spare) was the year of our highest average crowds. In reality things have never been quite the same since then. Whilst crowds stayed relatively high in the Championship, they didn't have the same dynamism that they had done pre-promotion. I didn't think we would recover from going bust so to put a decent bid forth in 2008 was a surprise and although we were accepted in 2011 there was significant decline in attendance prior to our SL entry. The second stint represented a real opportunity for RL in Widnes but was completely blown by the inability to create a half-decent squad ready to compete. Whilst things have improved from those shocking early days, we have still never truly competed. This feeds into our current problems. The club and the fans are at a stalemate. The club asks the fans to commit to season tickets so that they can build a decent squad and the fans expect them to build a decent squad so they'll commit to season tickets. The club then signs next to no one (and nobody of any quality) and the implication is that it's the fans fault. Those that then haven't bought STs pick and choose their games or simply find other things to do; once you're out the habit of going every week, it's hard to get back in it. I genuinely think the final straw for many was the selling of Kevin Brown and then not using the money to sign anybody to replace him. The stark reality is that we have been tipped to finish bottom for 3 years in a row yet the club seems to think that the first 7 games of 2016 was the real situation and it is only injuries that have held us back. Make no bones about it we are hemorrhaging fans and it has accelerated in the last couple of years. We've gone from being a middle-sized SL club to one of the smaller clubs. The main reason I'm concerned is that I'm not sure we can win them back and that the latent support is much reduced; I think we're down to an ever dwindling number of diehards. The novelty of SL has well and truly worn off and our glory days are now 30 years past and not something most of the people in Widnes experienced. I've followed many Widnes fans on Twitter and the number over the years that now never mention the club is depressing. Things are not quite terminal yet but I think we might be done as a SL club unless something changes and even then it might be too late without external improvement in the game. There was a rumour that Betts had quit last week and I was relieved for us and him, it's like groundhog day at the minute with literally no prospect of improvement.

Recently in the news (well about 2 weeks ago) there was the controversy over Cambridge analytica and the subsequent #deleteFacebook hashtag. Maybe it's my age but I've noticed an increase in people disillusioned with social media and even coming off it. I first signed up to Facebook in 2006 and for probably 7/8 years used it much like anyone else. That included posting my thoughts on anything and uploading photos of everywhere I went. There were things that annoyed me about it but I thought I'd probably have it forever. A couple of years ago my wife suddenly deleted her account and it was like a light was switched on. I could see how people were just trying to present propaganda versions of their lives and were often chasing likes with their comments. I realised that this is what I'd done everytime I posted a set of pictures of a holiday or a trip out. Although I didn't delete my account, I deleted the app and now don't use it. I can't recommend it enough as not once have I missed it. In the same vein, I decided to delete Twitter for Lent. I'm not religious but I still like to do something and I was hoping that I'd be able to do without it with a view to using my phone less. Often out of habit I'll scroll twitter looking for nothing in particular. It hasn't been as successful and there are features I genuinely miss. It is harder to follow RL without it for instance. I don't miss the drama and the virtue signalling but I've just replaced using twitter out of habit for other stuff (this forum for one!) So I have two more days to decide whether to reinstall it or not. Sadly I think I know the answer!

Last night saw one of the worst forward passes in memory and naturally it caused a lot of consternation online. Whilst pretty much everyone agreed it was forward, it always baffles me how many people don't actually understand the rule. Even the commentators mentioned how many metres forward it went which is not technically relevant. You then end up with people trying to argue that the RFL needs to end this 'momentum madness' and do it in relation the the pitch makings. This would cause chaos and be completely unworkable, yet many will pitch this as common sense. A couple of months ago there was an interesting discussion on here about how the voluntary tackle rule is not what everyone thinks it is. I tried to explain this on Monday to someone and felt like I was trying to tell them that the Earth was flat. It got me thinking, are there any other examples of situations where the generally accepted understanding of the rule is wrong?

People love to try and blame the Ipitch for everything! Saints have used 21 but what about the other 10 clubs? We lost all 4 of our subs on the Hull KR grass last week. Injuries are a blight on the modern game and if you start the season with a bang average wafer thin squad you're just asking for trouble.

At least being the key phrase. Widnes' trademark seems to be to create a first team of squad filler, back it up with no depth except youth and then cry hard luck when the injuries hit.

The key words here are 'can be bothered.' I'm a lazy sod. Also I quite like many retweets and wouldn't want to switch them off in totality. I follow science based twitter accounts that will often retweet other science based accounts. Going through on an individual basis wouldn't be easy surely?