koli

I was too young.First one I went to was Saints v Leeds in 1970.

I just read the 150 years book- fantastic piece of work but also in a way sad to compare the size of crowds,trophies won and quality of players from the late 1800s until the early '70s with the last 40 years. The first game I can remember attending was Saints v Swinton on an Easter Monday in 1965 and very fond memories of Saints Championship Semi and and Premiership appearances at Station Rd in the late 60s through late 70s especially the back to back premiership wins in 1976 n 1977 when it was already beginning to run to ruin. Soccer has plenty of fallen great clubs- the two Sheffields,Notts Forest,Preston NE etc- but none that have collapsed support wise ala Swinton,Oldham and Hunslet.

which was the only floodlit trphy played in daylight because of the 3 day week.I was at Widnes that afternoon.

Sad news Farrer and Thompson ...enough to frighten the hardest.

Back in day Ken Gee

Im with Marklaspalmas on this.44,000 active open age RL players and 200,000 RU players seems way too high for anything other than the very widest definition of "active"

watching on TV it seemed very clear to me that Gidley grounded short and then as his momentum carried him over Lomax prevented the ball touching the ground in goal. I was amazed that there was no comment from the commentary team.

The tension between more games for total gross revenue and fewer higher quality games with higher averages has been going on since the early 60s since when we have had - a brief conference approach in 61/62,moving to a top 16 play off in 64/65 , to divisions with P&R in 73/74 and then from 1996 onwards SL with its various permutations of play offs. League programmes were never smaller than 30 games until the late 80s and in the 50s n early 60s were 38 or 36. Since the early 90s we've lost the County Cup and JP/Regal Trophy and FL Trophy(1980). So historically a club might have 20 to 24 home games.Since SL its been more like 16 to 18 and the extra cup/playoff games have much smaller relative crowds than pre SL. The winter season ran 8.5 months (Sept to Mid May) the current season runs 8.25 months (Feb to early October). So the season seems long only relative to very recent history. The various changes in the 60s and 70s (including the dramatic switch to limited tackle) failed to arrest falling attendances which carried on falling until the 1980s .At Saints for instance total attendances peaked at 434,000 in 52/53 over 24 matches (19 league) and by 1986 were 130,373 in 22 (15 league) where they more or less remained until SL and success re enthused spectators .2015 saw a total of 207,853 in 18 games (15 league and help for a WCC gate) the highest total since 1966. We're a bit snookered. By concentrating money into SL we've seriously undermined the attractiveness of knock out competitions or a conference type approach and therefore face the lack of variety and by not growing viewing figures because there wasn't enough money or players to create sucessful clubs outside our "heartland" we run the feeder league danger..A smaller league programme can't deliver a big enough rise in average attendance to offset the loss of games and with the gap between SL and the rest alternative cups can't offer interesting enough variety.

The culture ,attitudes and psychology of the RL fan base would make a magnificent thesis for a social historian. The frequency with which you hear "thats it,I'm done with the game" over almost any issue under the sun dwarfs that of any other sport I'm aware of.I occassionally hear it from soccer but never from RU or cricket fans. I used to marvel at the tenacity of the Man City ,Sunderland and Newcastle fans to keep showing up despite relegation and lack of trophies .Maybe a 10 or 20% drop not the 75%+ that fallen RL clubs suffer. You'd think the ratio of die hards to casuals would be broadly similar .For whatever reason we seem to have a much higher percentage who demand success and top quality continually.The attitude seems much more consumerist in the sense that I've paid my money and so demand only the best-great rugby and lots of trophies rather than the sense of being there for the event itself and sense of comnmunity

You can see it on delayed telecast in Singapore .Setanta at 0525am on Sunday morning.

Looking back I miss the variety of the "old" season. County Cup in the early autumn as the league was just getting underway. and a chance since we moved to divisions to play the lower league clubs. Aus visiting every few years in the late Autumn Floodlight Trophy brightening up mid weeks as the winter drew in.. Christmas/New Year Derbys Gloom of February lifted by the early rounds of the cup May climax of CC,and Championship (League and Premiership once we went to divisions).

I think a lot has to do with kids no longer playing ad hoc games in the streets/parks/playgrounds and the growing dominance of soccer over the last 40 years. As a kid in the 60s we played touch all the time-maybe 50:50 with kicking a football around .A generation earlier it was 80:20 .Organized teams didn't start till U11 and it was all school teams until 16 or 18. Natural ball players would already be pretty well developed skill wise before formal coaching got hold of them.Today a much larger percentage of the natural half backs get creamed of to soccer in their early teens and with the decline in unstructured play generally maybe the intuitive feel doesn't get developed in the same way.

They were one of the best supported sides in the post war period through to the early 60s.during the 70s n 80s the theory was always that they were a sleeping giant attendance wise.just too long out of the top flight seems to have put paid to that.

The "hey day" was 1946 to around 1960.I think the record year was 1947 or 8 with an all game average of over 12,000 and 6million in total through the turnstiles. Top clubs in SL back to levels of the early 60s.The big changes of the SL era have been the big drop off in lower level gates and the collapse in Cup gates (which were usually bigger than regular league gates)

Assuming some lifting of the salary cap at Champ1 level the proposed system allows an ambitious club with a supportive board/investors to have a defined pathway to getting into the top division.it is in effect "put your money up first" licensing which is surely better than the current system.